In message <gvjogp$sv6$1@qmul>, whisky-dave <whisky-
dave@final.front.ear> writes

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:dpKdnQ726P-dJ4vXnZ2dnUVZ_tBi4p2d@giganews.com...
whisky-dave wrote:

It also seems strange that more police get shot in the USA than the UK,
thankfully it's quite rare in the UK.


That might be due to the fact that the US has about 6 times the
population
of the UK. Don't you think.

Possibley, but in the UK 'only' 1 or 2 a year are killed if that, it's
quite rare.

I think it is quite a few more than that.

So why doesn't American ban these guns ?

In the same way setting speed limits solves nothing. Baning a type of
gun where you don't know where the majority of them are and who
specifically has them will mean that they will still be out in
circulation.

the UK bans only worked because the Police knew EXACTLY where ALL of the
guns were.

Are you suggesting that overall there's some link between the number of
guns
in a society
and the number of people killed by guns ???????

No. I am not. There is a lot more to it than that.

It is still true that most police officers will never fire
their gun except at the pistol range during a normal career.
Seems a waste of time having them then doesn't it.
Why not carry a knife.

For the same reason careful drivers have issuance.
No they have insurance because it is the law. Well in the UK anyway.

You never know what
lunatic is just around the corner.
True and I'd prefer suchb a luntic wouldn't have access to a gun.

Besides when armed police turn up you
either fight (and usually loose) or talk to them and for most minor
crimes it is stupid to start shooting.

Ie if I get pulled over for speeding shooting my way out is just landing
myself in more trouble.

Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to call
in help up the road.

A nice spike-strip across the road does wonders,

and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding plastic
car when the driver loses it.

On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1{REMOVESP...@me.com> wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.

One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...

In message <gvm02n$nt1$1@news.eternal-september.org>, William Black
william.black@hotmail.co.uk> writes


All the Falklands guns got pulled by customs. They got something like
3,000.

You really don't live in the real world do you.... Many of the guns
were found. A very great number were not. Most realised there would be
a check coming back in to the UK and hid them in all sorts of places
in the vehicles

SO you have no evidence that there are not lots of illegal guns out
there. Given the number the police continually turn up there are
defiantly a lot of guns out there.

Ask the police. Every time there is an amnesty they get thousands of
guns handed in and the majority are modern guns. Not old gund from 30
years ago.

The last major firearms amnesty was in 1997 I think.

Define "major" most cites run them every year or two.

In message <gvm07e$nt1$2@news.eternal-september.org>, William Black
william.black@hotmail.co.uk> writes

You really don't know much about this stuff do you.

Having been a full bore gun owner (rifle and pistol) for over 20 years
and a founding member of the (UK) National Pistol Association and UKPSA
member I know a bit about it.

On the other hand you have given no evidence of anything let alone any
reason why your word should be accepted.

In fact only one gun owner reported his pistols stolen rather than handing
them in.
He was eventually arrested and tried for illegal possession of firearms,
and wasting police time. He did not receive a custodial sentence...

This is not correct. There was One case you cite above. There were
other cases where guns were reported stolen about that time. I have no
idea which were stolen and which just disappeared but, as the police
were assuming the worst at that time, very few would have been tempted
to try it.

It was not the same when the shotgun rules changed.

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1{REMOVESP...@me.com> wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.

One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...

On 2009-05-28 13:36:23 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1{REMOVESP...@me.com> wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.
One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...

Not quite as difficult as you believe, nowadays.

Fortunately for the most part, the imagined ability of the 'vette
driver to outrun everything, is dampened by his actual ability to do so.
Sometimes dumb luck will out and he will be able to evade, this is an
unusual outcome regardless of the vehicle driven.
If the vehicle is stolen, or hijacked the felon will abandon it as soon
as he believes he can get away, and that usually leads to capture.
If it is an idiot being chased in his own vehicle, he has already
starred in the current video of the day recorded in the majority of
pursuit vehicles, and we will have a pretty good idea of who owns the
car, or who the owner knows is using the car.

Any pursuit confined to surface streets is limited by the environment
and most performance vehicles do not have an advantage over a trained
driver in one of the current Law Enforcement pursuit cruisers, be it
Crown Vic Interceptor (this is not Grand Pa's crown Vic ), or Charger
PD conversion.

If the chase is on limited access highways or freeways, the key is to
keep the chased vehicle on that freeway and monitor exits and
communication between pursuers and dispatch centers. Let him run we
know where he is and ultimately he will be captured. The thing which
compresses time in this scenario, is the threat the chased driver
presents to the public, which might compel officers to take action to
stop the pursuit as soon as possible.

Then depending on location there is that great Law Enforcement tool,
the helicopter.

Traffic, stress and desperation usually leads to mistakes and capture.

Rural roads may be different, but then the communities are small and
the runner if local will eventually be revealed, or is probably already
locally notorious.


I recall seeing a Vette that missed a curve (running from a deputy

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 13:36:23 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1{REMOVESP...@me.com> wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.
One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...

Not quite as difficult as you believe, nowadays.

Fortunately for the most part, the imagined ability of the 'vette
driver to outrun everything, is dampened by his actual ability to do so.
Sometimes dumb luck will out and he will be able to evade, this is an
unusual outcome regardless of the vehicle driven.
If the vehicle is stolen, or hijacked the felon will abandon it as soon
as he believes he can get away, and that usually leads to capture.
If it is an idiot being chased in his own vehicle, he has already
starred in the current video of the day recorded in the majority of
pursuit vehicles, and we will have a pretty good idea of who owns the
car, or who the owner knows is using the car.

Any pursuit confined to surface streets is limited by the environment
and most performance vehicles do not have an advantage over a trained
driver in one of the current Law Enforcement pursuit cruisers, be it
Crown Vic Interceptor (this is not Grand Pa's crown Vic ), or Charger
PD conversion.

If the chase is on limited access highways or freeways, the key is to
keep the chased vehicle on that freeway and monitor exits and
communication between pursuers and dispatch centers. Let him run we
know where he is and ultimately he will be captured. The thing which
compresses time in this scenario, is the threat the chased driver
presents to the public, which might compel officers to take action to
stop the pursuit as soon as possible.

Then depending on location there is that great Law Enforcement tool,
the helicopter.

Traffic, stress and desperation usually leads to mistakes and capture.

Rural roads may be different, but then the communities are small and
the runner if local will eventually be revealed, or is probably already
locally notorious.


I recall seeing a Vette that missed a curve (running from a deputy
Sheriff in Galveston County, Tx.), and went through a barbed wire
fence. The only part of the car, and driver, that was intact enough
to be recognizable was the engine and transmission, that was sitting
about 150 feet out into a pasture. The rest was spread over more than
1/2 acre. The only time I have seen a worse mess was when a jet fighter
crashed directly into the ground, digging a 30 foot hole, and spreading
itself (and the pilot) over a couple of acres of pasture land. The
managed to pick up about 40 lbs of the pilot in a bag. The Vette was
almost as bad.

On 2009-05-28 16:23:59 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 13:36:23 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1{REMOVESP...@me.com> wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.
One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...
Not quite as difficult as you believe, nowadays.

Fortunately for the most part, the imagined ability of the 'vette
driver to outrun everything, is dampened by his actual ability to do so.
Sometimes dumb luck will out and he will be able to evade, this is an
unusual outcome regardless of the vehicle driven.
If the vehicle is stolen, or hijacked the felon will abandon it as soon
as he believes he can get away, and that usually leads to capture.
If it is an idiot being chased in his own vehicle, he has already
starred in the current video of the day recorded in the majority of
pursuit vehicles, and we will have a pretty good idea of who owns the
car, or who the owner knows is using the car.

Any pursuit confined to surface streets is limited by the environment
and most performance vehicles do not have an advantage over a trained
driver in one of the current Law Enforcement pursuit cruisers, be it
Crown Vic Interceptor (this is not Grand Pa's crown Vic ), or Charger
PD conversion.

If the chase is on limited access highways or freeways, the key is to
keep the chased vehicle on that freeway and monitor exits and
communication between pursuers and dispatch centers. Let him run we
know where he is and ultimately he will be captured. The thing which
compresses time in this scenario, is the threat the chased driver
presents to the public, which might compel officers to take action to
stop the pursuit as soon as possible.

Then depending on location there is that great Law Enforcement tool,
the helicopter.

Traffic, stress and desperation usually leads to mistakes and capture.

Rural roads may be different, but then the communities are small and
the runner if local will eventually be revealed, or is probably already
locally notorious.


I recall seeing a Vette that missed a curve (running from a deputy
Sheriff in Galveston County, Tx.), and went through a barbed wire
fence. The only part of the car, and driver, that was intact enough
to be recognizable was the engine and transmission, that was sitting
about 150 feet out into a pasture. The rest was spread over more than
1/2 acre. The only time I have seen a worse mess was when a jet fighter
crashed directly into the ground, digging a 30 foot hole, and spreading
itself (and the pilot) over a couple of acres of pasture land. The
managed to pick up about 40 lbs of the pilot in a bag. The Vette was
almost as bad.

This was the worst I have ever experienced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Flight_1771
The hillside was covered in what looked like confetti, there was
nothing vaguely recognizable as human or plane.
That used to be one of my favorite alternate drives to the coast. I
can't do that anymore without revisting the nightmare that disaster was.

The airplane crash happened when I was about 11, but even after

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 16:23:59 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 13:36:23 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1{REMOVESP...@me.com> wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.
I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.
One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
True, but you need to keep him in sight...
Not quite as difficult as you believe, nowadays.

Fortunately for the most part, the imagined ability of the 'vette
driver to outrun everything, is dampened by his actual ability to do so.
Sometimes dumb luck will out and he will be able to evade, this is an
unusual outcome regardless of the vehicle driven.
If the vehicle is stolen, or hijacked the felon will abandon it as soon
as he believes he can get away, and that usually leads to capture.
If it is an idiot being chased in his own vehicle, he has already
starred in the current video of the day recorded in the majority of
pursuit vehicles, and we will have a pretty good idea of who owns the
car, or who the owner knows is using the car.

Any pursuit confined to surface streets is limited by the environment
and most performance vehicles do not have an advantage over a trained
driver in one of the current Law Enforcement pursuit cruisers, be it
Crown Vic Interceptor (this is not Grand Pa's crown Vic ), or Charger
PD conversion.

If the chase is on limited access highways or freeways, the key is to
keep the chased vehicle on that freeway and monitor exits and
communication between pursuers and dispatch centers. Let him run we
know where he is and ultimately he will be captured. The thing which
compresses time in this scenario, is the threat the chased driver
presents to the public, which might compel officers to take action to
stop the pursuit as soon as possible.

Then depending on location there is that great Law Enforcement tool,
the helicopter.

Traffic, stress and desperation usually leads to mistakes and capture.

Rural roads may be different, but then the communities are small and
the runner if local will eventually be revealed, or is probably already
locally notorious.


I recall seeing a Vette that missed a curve (running from a deputy
Sheriff in Galveston County, Tx.), and went through a barbed wire
fence. The only part of the car, and driver, that was intact enough
to be recognizable was the engine and transmission, that was sitting
about 150 feet out into a pasture. The rest was spread over more than
1/2 acre. The only time I have seen a worse mess was when a jet fighter
crashed directly into the ground, digging a 30 foot hole, and spreading
itself (and the pilot) over a couple of acres of pasture land. The
managed to pick up about 40 lbs of the pilot in a bag. The Vette was
almost as bad.

This was the worst I have ever experienced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Flight_1771
The hillside was covered in what looked like confetti, there was
nothing vaguely recognizable as human or plane.
That used to be one of my favorite alternate drives to the coast. I
can't do that anymore without revisting the nightmare that disaster was.

The airplane crash happened when I was about 11, but even after
wandering around in the field for a while, and seeing parts of 'organic
matter' all around, and finding it on my shoes later, I never had
nightmares about it. The whole thing was so far from any normal
experience that there was little emotional impact. The 'remains' had
been removed from the car crash site before I got there. Neither site
was on my normal travel routes.

"Chris H" <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote in message

Yes they did as ALL *legal* guns were registered by serial number to an
owner with an address and where they kept the guns. You move house you
have to tell the police and get the new storage inspected.

So what was the point of the owner taking the gun to the police ?
Why not let the police go to the gun, less risk of them getting stolen
in transit.

The only guns they did not know about were illegal guns.


Is that how the legality of guns is defined.

In message <gvm79t$mnu$1@qmul>, whisky-dave <whisky-
dave@final.front.ear> writes

"Chris H" <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote in message
the UK bans only worked because the Police knew EXACTLY where ALL of the
guns were.

No, they didn;t know where they all were,
Yes they did as ALL *legal* guns were registered by serial number to an
owner with an address and where they kept the guns. You move house you
have to tell the police and get the new storage inspected.

The only guns they did not know about were illegal guns.

Are you suggesting that overall there's some link between the number of
guns
in a society
and the number of people killed by guns ???????

No. I am not. There is a lot more to it than that.

Yes, but not that many people got killed by guns until they became the
weapon of choice.

I agree. It is not the number of guns... some countries have far more
guns as a percentage of population but a much lower gun crime rate. It
is not so much the guns as the culture of the people.

Though in the culture where guns are used in crime more people tend to
want/get them and use them.

It is still true that most police officers will never fire
their gun except at the pistol range during a normal career.
Seems a waste of time having them then doesn't it.
Why not carry a knife.

For the same reason careful drivers have issuance.
No they have insurance because it is the law. Well in the UK anyway.

True. House insurance then... that is not mandatory.

You never know what
lunatic is just around the corner.
True and I'd prefer suchb a luntic wouldn't have access to a gun.

They do now in the UK
The legal gun owners were not lunatics.
What about the one that had a car accident and it damaged part of his brain

Besides when armed police turn up you
either fight (and usually loose) or talk to them and for most minor
crimes it is stupid to start shooting.
well we tend to only arm our police when a crime involving a firearm might
occur,

That is complete bullocks. There are far more armed police in the UK
than ever before and these guns are now normally carried around the
streets. Not held in Police stations.

Ie if I get pulled over for speeding shooting my way out is just landing
myself in more trouble.

Speeding off isn't a good idea either,
That is not an absolute.

but it happens.

Most people speed to a greater or lesser extent.
I agree it doesn't make it right or safe, but some are OK others I would

I'd have thought shooting a gun off isn't a good idea in general but it
happens.

Quite often in some cities.
True it happens occasionally near where I live, I doubt they are legal guns

But how does that help the person that gets shot, ah yes, it's a bad idea
to
be anywhere near a person with a gun, well at least that makes some sense.

It depends who has the gun. Though the police have shot a fair few wrong
targets.

On Mon, 4 May 2009, boris spider wrote:
The viewing galley at the top of the tower of Westminster Cathedral

               ^^^^^^

can one cook there ? :-)

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nos...@mi.iasf.cnr.it is a newsreading account used by more persons to
avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected.
Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.

On May 4, 12:12 pm, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi everyone;

I will be visiting England on a very brief stay. I will have two days in
London, two days in Norwich, and two days in Liverpool early next month.
I am an avid amateur photographer. I am wondering if anyone on this
newsgroup can suggest areas of those three cities where I can go to
shoot some interesting photographs, but that are not like the ones
everyone else who visits those areas is likely to shoot. For example, is
there any tall buildings where I can get access to the roof legally
where I can shoot some interesting photos, or some unique parks, etc.?
Note that I will be relying 100% on public transportation.

The city of Ely is near has a really nice cathedral and grounds,
including roof access on the tour

http://web.mac.com/stepheda/Bedfordshire_2008/Ely_Cathedral.html

Don't know what kind of public transport there is

On May 4, 12:12 pm, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi everyone;

I will be visiting England on a very brief stay. I will have two days in
London, two days in Norwich, and two days in Liverpool early next month.
I am an avid amateur photographer. I am wondering if anyone on this
newsgroup can suggest areas of those three cities where I can go to
shoot some interesting photographs, but that are not like the ones
everyone else who visits those areas is likely to shoot. For example, is
there any tall buildings where I can get access to the roof legally
where I can shoot some interesting photos, or some unique parks, etc.?
Note that I will be relying 100% on public transportation.