North Cape and Norwegian Fjords Cruise Review

Navigation: Main Page » Travel and Air Transportation Newsgroups

Travel Groups Forum Index » Cruises » North Cape and Norwegian Fjords Cruise Review - Chapter 1

Page 1 of 4 Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Author

Message

Tom K

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:35 pm

Guest

Following is the first chapter in my cruise review of our sailing on Crown
Princess to the Norwegian Fjords and North Cape. I'll do it in sections and
post them as I complete them (they're kind of long so if I have any spelling
or grammar errors. oops). I don't usually post my photos, but Charles
usually does. Maybe he'll get them up shortly and provide a link.

Hopefully Charles will chime in with his thoughts and insights as well.

Hope you all enjoy.

--Tom

Cruise Review - Chapter 1

------

Crown Princess

July 7-19, 2009

Itinerary: Norwegian Fjords and North Cape

July 7 Embarkation, Southampton, England

July 8 At Sea

July 9 Stavanger, Norway

July 10Geiranger, Norway / Geiranger Fjord

July 11 Trondheim, Norway

July 12 At Sea

July 13 Honningsvag, Norway / North Cape

July 14 Tromso, Norway

July 15 At Sea

July 16 Flam, Norway / Sognefjord

July 17 Bergen, Norway

July 18 At Sea

July 19 Disembarkation, Southampton, England

Packing and Dressing for Norway

------

Not knowing what the weather would be each day, in fact from hour to hour in
each port, the logical choice is to bring along a back pack and dress in
layers. Before our last Norwegian Fjord cruise, I bought a Marmot rain
jacket with hood, and pair of rain pants. I didn't need them last time, but
this time the jacket came in handy on several occasions.

We really didn't know what to expect as far as weather, especially up as far
north as the North Cape. We checked out Intellicast.com, and it showed
55-65 degree highs for Tromso, also above the Arctic Circle. But it also
showed 40 degree lows. So layers was the smart way to dress.

In addition to my rain jacket, I brought a warm sweatshirt and a fleece type
jacket that fit under the rain jacket. That combination served me well.
And so did the golf shirts that I brought. I didn't bring jeans. I wore
Khakis. I didn't wear Bermuda shorts any day.

Actually, the 2 nicest days we had were at North Cape and Tromso, both well
above the Arctic Circle. Tromso was nearly 75 degrees F, and I think North
Cape was about 80 degrees F. Both of those days were golf shirt days.
Northern Norway is 50 degrees warmer than similar latitudes elsewhere in the
world. Why? Stay tuned.

Jet Lag

-----

I've had luck in the past booking a morning flight from Newark to Heathrow.
My flight left at 9:00 am and arrived in London at 9:30 pm. While I was a
bit exhausted the next day (embarkation day) I had no jet lag. It can be a
bit more boring staying up and reading or watching a movie instead of
sleeping on the red eye, but I think benefits outweigh negatives. I would
do that again in the future.

Getting to the Ship

------

I purchased the transfers from Princess for getting from Heathrow to
Southampton. It's a one hour and 15 minute ride in normal traffic. Another
option is a train, though I'm not sure how close to the pier it brings you.
There are actually 2 different piers that cruise ships/ocean liners use in
Southampton, and they're not that close together. Our ship sailed from the
Mayfair Terminal pier. That's also where the QM2 sails from. The QE2 used
to use the other pier. My rating for Princess Transfer services A.

Passenger Mix

------

On our North Cape sailing, there were 1700 Brits and 700 Americans. The
rest were a mix from Canada, Australia/NZ, and elsewhere in Europe,
Central/South America and Asia. It was quite an older mix. Probably the
oldest passenger mix I've seen so far. I'd say there were maybe 75-100 kids
on board. Maybe less.

Ship

------

This was my second time on the Crown Princess. Not my favorite ship. and
she still isn't. She's pretty much abysmal in high winds and rough seas.
In fact, she's pretty bad in any kind of seas other than absolute calm. She's
based on the Grand Princess hull, adding an additional deck of passenger
cabins, without any additional public space. So she's a pretty high density
ship. Instead of having the "spoiler in the back", her disco is a bit more
toward the funnel. However, when they take photos on formal night, they use
a photo of Grand Princess with the Crown Princess name, because the photo
has the spoiler. Probably not many (if any) other people would notice
something like that. But I did.

The ship is being maintained very well. She's pretty immaculate on both the
inside and the outside. The crew is constantly cleaning her, though
unobtrusively.

Favorite areas of the ship are the Wheelhouse Bar and the International
Café. The International Café is a good place to meet before heading to
ports in the morning. I also like the buffet area.

Any negatives as far as the ship? Mostly the fact that they picked a ship
for a very northerly sailing that doesn't have a covered pool. We only used
the pools and hot tubs once, and that was up in the Arctic Sea by the North
Cape. but more on that unique phenomenon later (hint. it's the same reason
Bermuda doesn't freeze in the winter). But for now, let's just say that
Northern Norway is much warmer than Southern Norway.

Overall rating for the ship itself (aside from its instability) A-. The
minus because of no solarium. Otherwise an A.

Service

------

Our waiter and assistant waiter (other than the waiter the first night, who
we left) were simply outstanding. And our large group tended to drive them
crazy. Even the help in the buffet restaurants were excellent. My room
attendant was equally great. My rating for Service was A+.

Food

------

Yes I know food is subjective (but steaks as tough as shoe leather and fish
that smells really fishy aren't subjective). so here's my take.

Personal Choice vs. Traditional: We started out with Traditional Dining,
with early seating at 6:00 since we had about 8 kids in our group. Our
waiter in the dining room was a bit "testy". When 2 people ordered steaks,
and they came out reversed as far as level of rare vs. well done, he scolded
one of our party as to how to order steak in the future, when they asked him
about the steaks. Part of our group of 19 had booked late, and couldn't be
seated with us. The next day we talked to the Maitre d' and he seated all
of us in the Personal Choice dining room, with an "every day" reservation
for 6:00 at the same tables. Our group had 3 large tables. Personal Choice
worked perfectly for us, having the reserved table, and the same waiter
every day. And for our sail away from Flam (on the Sognefjord), we wanted
to take pictures so we came into the dining room at 8:00 and were
immediately seated, in fact with out normal waiter. On Princess Personal
Choice seems to work very well. My rating for having both PC and
Traditional - A+.

Breakfast and Lunch Buffet: Actually quite good. There was a fresh omelet
station, even on the last day. Good selection of fruits, including
excellent pineapple and Crenshaw melon. My only real complaint was that
there were times that they'd close off one of the 3 sections (the sections
are port side, starboard side, and an aft section covering both port and
starboard). A lot of times the aft section would be closed off and there
were no seats available in the other 2 sections. The buffet is open 24
hours. Lunch soups are a bit bland. but I threw in pasta and veggies to
make it more "substantial". Like Grandma made. Some weird British items.
but overall I'd rate the buffets an A-.

Breakfast Dining Room: We had breakfast in the dining room several times on
sea days. While they didn't usually have eggs benedict on the menu, they
would prepare it for you if you asked. Fruit selection was poor. Overall
rating B-.

Pub Lunch: Princess is copying Cunard by having a pub lunch in the
Wheelhouse Bar. We had the Sheppard's pie. Not good. If you want put
lunch. stick with Cunard. I'll give it a C+

Dinner Dining Room: Let me start off by saying all fish, seafood and steaks
are frozen. I'll provide more detail on that later. But basically, James
Deering the Hotel Director said that due to US CDC (Center for Disease
Control) requirements for ships that go to US Ports or have Americans on
board, pretty much all food on board is flown in from the US before being
loaded on board the ship. Fish and steaks come frozen by plane from the US.
Fish and meat are not sourced locally. The only thing we saw with a UK
label was the Yogurt.

Well. using that as a starting point, the food in the main dining room was
pretty lousy. A few meals in the dining room were excellent, but others
were simply abysmal. Salads were terrible. Many came without dressing, and
a bowl of dressing was later delivered to the table. One night the salad
said Boston Lettuce on the menu, and it came out Romaine. Many salads were
wilted. The Caesar was terrible.

Appetizers were usually weird. One night they served sweetbreads. Yuk.
Many appetizers had things like scallops and mussels, which I won't eat
(they're filter feeders from polluted oceans). If you like them fine. but I
won't eat them.

The first night I ordered a chilled pina colada soup, and it came out warm.
No telling how long it had sat out. Most soups were too salty, or just
plain lousy. Even the cream of mushroom soup, which was so good on the
Norwegian Dawn, was terrible. How do you ruin cream of mushroom soup?

I used to eat the fish on Princess. This cruise put an end to that. And
being frozen has nothing to do with it. Since the QM2 has to have the same
US CDC requirements if they sail to the US, and her fish is excellent, you
can do excellent fish even if it's frozen. It just has to be quality fish.
But fish on our sailing was simply poor quality. Many fish meals smelled
"fishy" (that's never a good sign). and were simply returned. I gave up
trying after about 4 days.

The fillet mignon was of course excellent, but other stakes were terrible.
Full of grizzle and tough as shoe leather.

Desserts were basically comparable to the Royal Caribbean synthetic
desserts.

My overall rating of the dining room food. It ranged from A- to F. But the
overall rating has to be D+ or at best a C-. Much of it was that bad.
Sorry Princess, but on this sailing you dropped well below Royal Caribbean.
I probably returned 6-7 meals during the 12 nights. One night I got a
turkey pot pie after I sent a New York cut steak back, and another night I
even settled for lousy meat loaf. that's how desperate I got. For my
overall dining room food, I'll go D+.

Dinner Buffet: We didn't do the dinner buffet, but frequently went up to
the buffet later for some fresh fruit, or better desserts. The dinner
buffet looked outstanding. I would have eaten there, but nobody else wanted
to. My rating A-.

Sabbatini's (or Portafino's. or whatever they call it. they all blend
together). Good but not worth the $20. We should have done the steak
place, but the group wanted Italian so we went. Nothing memorable. Rating
a B-.

So overall I guess I can't come up with a single grade. So for everything
else, I'll go with A-, but for the Dining room a D+.

Shows

------

I didn't go to any of the dance shows, but I did go to the illusionist show
and the hypnotist show. Both were lots of fun. They had 2 British
comedians in the smaller Explorer's Club and both were quite funny - though
you did have to listen carefully because of their British accents. There
was an excellent piano player Rita, who played in several of the night
spots, as well as in the main lobby by the International Café. MUTS should
have been renamed on our sailing. MUTMS (movies under the midnight sun) or
MUTR (movies under the rain). Because of the large number of Brits on
board, trivia and comedy shows were mostly Brit oriented. When trivia
questions started out with things like "Which Surrey town had.", we had no
clue what they were even talking about. I won't rate the shows because I
typically don't like shows.

Satellite Reception

------

Last time up in the land of the Fjords, we lost our satellite signal for
internet. But that was back in 2005. This time we had a signal almost all
the time, with the exception of several times directly inside the fjords
where the signal cannot reach that far down inside the huge mountains.
E-mail and cell phone access were excellent. For their satellite
communications, I'll give them A++.

Art Auctions

------

Our sailing was an "Art Connoisseur's" sailing. They had several artists on
board, whose art they were "pushing" in the art auctions. The artists were
Howard Behrens, Michael Godard, Alexandra Nechita (she's really cute), Dorit
Levy, and Bill Mack. Some gave art demonstrations. Howard Behrens even let
people come up and apply some paint to a painting he was working on. He's
now focusing on using a pallet knife, and his colors are kind of garish.
Michael Godard did some really ugly stuff with olives as the characters of
the drawings. Levy and Nechita do very modern art, which I don't get at
all. Just not my thing. I like Vermeer and Rembrandt.

There was also a 1 hour "History of Art" lecture by the art director. It
was laughable. He had about 15 pictures of Andy Warhol art, but only made
brief references to Rembrandt, Vermeer, Michelangelo, and Caravaggio. Just
MAYBE that's because he's pushing Andy Warhol prints. LOL.

Next up. "Cruise Critic Get Together" for some good insights from Hotel
Director James Deering. And after that... the ports. Stay tuned.

D Ball

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:35 pm

Guest

Hi, Tom and Charles, welcome home!

Great to read your entertaining and informative review, Tom, and added
comments, Charles. Can't wait to hear more, especially about Norway,
what you did in port and the weather teaser you've left us hanging on.

I was interested to learn of James Deering's new post. We met him on a
Hawaii sailing during his NCL years, where he was well-known among
Cruise Critics for supporting gatherings and providing a wealth of
candid information and helpful tips about the ship and ports. Princess
is lucky to have him, as I think his personal involvement in the
passenger experience is a big plus.

The food provisioning issue is intriguing. I haven't taken a European
cruise in several years, but at the time we sailed Celebrity and Royal
Caribbean, we were told they relied in part on local provisioning. I
wonder if Princess' explanation that the US regulatory scheme applied
(it sounds doubtful from a legal standpoint, see, e.g., this article
on the CDC-administered Vessel Sanitation Program, which although not
exactly on point, illustrates the CDC's jurisdiction is confined to
ships that "have a foreign itinerary with U.S. ports"
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/desc/aboutvsp.htm) was an excuse for an
economic decision to enter into more favorable long-term provisioning
agreements with US suppliers because the majority of Princess cruises
probably do fall under US regs, instead of bearing the higher cost of
piecemeal provisioning depending on some ships' seasonal itinerary
shifts away from the US. When you consider the business logistics and
cost on a fleet-wide basis, it'd clearly be more advantageous to rely
on the same food suppliers for all ships all the time.

I'm sure some knowledgeable RTCer will figure out the straight skinny
and let us know.

Diana Ball
Austin, TX

Susette

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:01 pm

Guest

Quote:

Charles and TOm and all the rest that are interested,

So many ships blend in together with me, However when Bob and I were
on a RCCl forget what ship think it was a Liberty... We talked to a
Hotel director in the wee hours... In speaking to him He did say
that ALL RCCl ships get their provisions from USA and all ships get
the same things. and they said Nothing as far as the meets and Veggies
came from other countries other then the sodas and alcohol and
such... FOund it to be interesting. So I concur what you were told is
most likely correct as I heard the same thing and I was told it comes
from Florida

Rosalie B.

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:02 pm

Guest

"Tom K" <tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Quote:

I did wonder about one thing

Quote:

Food

------

Yes I know food is subjective (but steaks as tough as shoe leather and fish
that smells really fishy aren't subjective). so here's my take.

Dinner Dining Room: Let me start off by saying all fish, seafood and steaks
are frozen. I'll provide more detail on that later. But basically, James
Deering the Hotel Director said that due to US CDC (Center for Disease
Control) requirements for ships that go to US Ports or have Americans on
board, pretty much all food on board is flown in from the US before being
loaded on board the ship. Fish and steaks come frozen by plane from the US.
Fish and meat are not sourced locally. The only thing we saw with a UK
label was the Yogurt.

Why does the CDC have anything to say about a ship that is not based

in the US doing a European cruise with mainly non-US pax?

And what health advantage would there be to having frozen food flown
in?

That sounds bogus to me - like they are making excuses for doing it
that. way.

Tom K

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:02 pm

Guest

"peter" <peters25@stockton.com> wrote in message
news:C68A5F93.5AF0F%peters25@stockton.com...

Quote:

On 7/20/09 4:40 PM, in article 370965l7ihatmkdgkpajd1938kcpi648m7@4ax.com,
"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley@mindspring.com> wrote:

"Tom K" <tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Following is the first chapter in my cruise review of our sailing on
Crown
Princess to the Norwegian Fjords and North Cape. I'll do it in sections
and
post them as I complete them (they're kind of long so if I have any
spelling
or grammar errors. oops). I don't usually post my photos, but Charles
usually does. Maybe he'll get them up shortly and provide a link.

Hopefully Charles will chime in with his thoughts and insights as well.

Hope you all enjoy.

--Tom

Great review

I did wonder about one thing

Food

------

Yes I know food is subjective (but steaks as tough as shoe leather and
fish
that smells really fishy aren't subjective). so here's my take.

Dinner Dining Room: Let me start off by saying all fish, seafood and
steaks
are frozen. I'll provide more detail on that later. But basically,
James
Deering the Hotel Director said that due to US CDC (Center for Disease
Control) requirements for ships that go to US Ports or have Americans on
board, pretty much all food on board is flown in from the US before
being
loaded on board the ship. Fish and steaks come frozen by plane from the
US.
Fish and meat are not sourced locally. The only thing we saw with a UK
label was the Yogurt.

Why does the CDC have anything to say about a ship that is not based
in the US doing a European cruise with mainly non-US pax?

And what health advantage would there be to having frozen food flown
in?

That sounds bogus to me - like they are making excuses for doing it
that. way.

If the CDC would require that, why can you buy overseas frozen food in
U.S.
markets? I don't believe the CDC takes jurisdiction simply because
Americans
are onboard.

That's what the Hotel Director said. I'm just relaying what he said.

Perhaps frozen food imported into the US does fall under CDC or FDA control
and they can ensure the products are safe. I do know that pharmaceuticals
brought into the US from other countries have their manufacturing facilities
inspected routinely by the FDA. I would guess it's the same with imported
food.

--Tom
>

Tom K

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:02 pm

Guest

"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:370965l7ihatmkdgkpajd1938kcpi648m7@4ax.com...

Quote:

"Tom K" <tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Following is the first chapter in my cruise review of our sailing on Crown
Princess to the Norwegian Fjords and North Cape. I'll do it in sections
and
post them as I complete them (they're kind of long so if I have any
spelling
or grammar errors. oops). I don't usually post my photos, but Charles
usually does. Maybe he'll get them up shortly and provide a link.

Hopefully Charles will chime in with his thoughts and insights as well.

Hope you all enjoy.

--Tom

Great review

I did wonder about one thing

Food

------

Yes I know food is subjective (but steaks as tough as shoe leather and
fish
that smells really fishy aren't subjective). so here's my take.

Dinner Dining Room: Let me start off by saying all fish, seafood and
steaks
are frozen. I'll provide more detail on that later. But basically, James
Deering the Hotel Director said that due to US CDC (Center for Disease
Control) requirements for ships that go to US Ports or have Americans on
board, pretty much all food on board is flown in from the US before being
loaded on board the ship. Fish and steaks come frozen by plane from the
US.
Fish and meat are not sourced locally. The only thing we saw with a UK
label was the Yogurt.

Why does the CDC have anything to say about a ship that is not based
in the US doing a European cruise with mainly non-US pax?

But the ship IS frequently US based, and will come over in a few weeks for
fall foliage sailings. And she had a lot of Americans on board. Most
European sailings are predominatly American. Ours was the exception. Plus
Carnival is a US based corporation.

Quote:

And what health advantage would there be to having frozen food flown
in?

Frozen isn't the point. Sourcing provisions from the US is the point.
Control over safety of food supplies. Not to say European food supplies
aren't safe. They probably just don't fall under CDC control like US
suppliers would.

Quote:

That sounds bogus to me - like they are making excuses for doing it
that. way.

I think getting local provisions would be a lot easier and probably cheaper.
Flying frozen foods from the US doesn't sound like it's something that they
just choose to do voluntarily. And it can't be cheap. But you can choose
to believe what you want.

Charles

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:02 pm

Guest

In article <4a6472c1$0$22509$607ed4bc@cv.net>, Tom K
<tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Quote:

I don't usually post my photos, but Charles
usually does. Maybe he'll get them up shortly and provide a link.

I took so many photos it will take me a few weeks to have them up.

Quote:

Hopefully Charles will chime in with his thoughts and insights as well.

I've had luck in the past booking a morning flight from Newark to
Heathrow. My flight left at 9:00 am and arrived in London at 9:30 pm.
While I was a bit exhausted the next day (embarkation day) I had no
jet lag. It can be a bit more boring staying up and reading or
watching a movie instead of sleeping on the red eye, but I think
benefits outweigh negatives. I would do that again in the future.

Don't agree with Tom on this. I left at 6:40 in the evening DC time and
arrived at 7:05 am London time. I liked that better than last year when
I flew at 9:00 am in the morning from the US and arrived in the evening
London time. After arriving I did a tour with the group that did Bath,
Salisbury and Stonehenge. I did not have much jet lag.

I flew Virgin Atlantic and don't care to fly with them again even
though they had a great choice of over 50 movies. They canceled my
return flight and were not that helpful. Had to fly back to Newark and
take train to DC. Also they weighed my 20 inch carry on which none have
done before and I had to check it and repack some stuff in a carry on.
Funny they did not do that on the return. Probably should not complain
since it only cost me 25,000 frequent flyer miles to celebrate their
25th year.

Quote:

This was my second time on the Crown Princess. Not my favorite ship.
and she still isn't. She's pretty much abysmal in high winds and
rough seas. In fact, she's pretty bad in any kind of seas other than
absolute calm.

I have been on Crown Princess three times and I don't agree that she is
abysmal in high seas or bad in other than calm seas. I think she about
average. I think the Royal Caribbean Voyager class handles rough seas a
little better but on any but the QM2 if it gets very rough passengers
are going to feel motion.

Quote:

She's based on the Grand Princess hull, adding an additional deck of
passenger cabins, without any additional public space. So she's a
pretty high density ship.

The 500 extra passengers than Grand Class makes a difference. There was
very little public space added. All public areas were crowded.

Quote:

The ship is being maintained very well. She's pretty immaculate on
both the inside and the outside. The crew is constantly cleaning
her, though unobtrusively.

Agree.

Quote:

Favorite areas of the ship are the Wheelhouse Bar and the International
Café. The International Café is a good place to meet before heading to
ports in the morning. I also like the buffet area.

Too much second hand smoke in the Wheelhouse Bar. I understand that
will be addressed shortly. Hope it is true they will make it non
smoking like Crooners.

Quote:

Our waiter and assistant waiter (other than the waiter the first
night, who we left) were simply outstanding. And our large group
tended to drive them crazy. Even the help in the buffet restaurants
were excellent. My room attendant was equally great. My rating for
Service was A+.

The service and the staff were great all the way around.

Quote:

Well. using that as a starting point, the food in the main dining
room was pretty lousy. A few meals in the dining room were
excellent, but others were simply abysmal. Salads were terrible.
Many came without dressing, and a bowl of dressing was later
delivered to the table. One night the salad said Boston Lettuce on
the menu, and it came out Romaine. Many salads were wilted. The
Caesar was terrible.

I was also disappointed in the food in the main dining room. I would
call a lot of it lousy. And I did not order any fish for dinner. Three
or four nights is was okay. The salads were bad, sad looking. And the
dressing was not good either. The caesar was crap.

Quote:

Appetizers were usually weird. One night they served sweetbreads.
Yuk. Many appetizers had things like scallops and mussels, which I
won't eat (they're filter feeders from polluted oceans). If you like
them fine. but I won't eat them.

I eat all the above and did not think they were weird. I did not think
most of the quality was very good though. The Escargot was very good.

Quote:

I used to eat the fish on Princess. This cruise put an end to that.
And being frozen has nothing to do with it.

I did not order fish because except in the specialty restaurants it is
usually sub par and around home I am used to eating fish that has not
been frozen.

Quote:

Sorry Princess, but on this sailing you dropped well below Royal
Caribbean.

I also thought dining room food on this sailing fell below my last
cruise on Royal Caribbean.

Quote:

I didn't go to any of the dance shows

The dancers are pretty good but the material blends together over the
years. The show tend to be compilations of best hits of genres.

The astronomy lecturer Don Kurtz was outstanding.

A huge plus is the self service laundromat. I really don't want to do a
12 day cruise without one.

Quote:

Next up. "Cruise Critic Get Together" for some good insights from Hotel
Director James Deering. And after that... the ports. Stay tuned.

This get together was requested by a Cruise Critic member and they put
it in the Princess Patter. Both the Captain and hotel manager came and
answered questions. Much better than the official meetings sponsored in
advance by Cruise Critic and Royal Caribbean as far as cruise line
personnel. That was almost to good since the Cruise Critic members did
not have much time to meet each other. The attendance of from the
Cruise Critic roll call was pretty good.

--
Charles

peter

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:02 pm

Guest

On 7/20/09 4:40 PM, in article 370965l7ihatmkdgkpajd1938kcpi648m7@4ax.com,
"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley@mindspring.com> wrote:

Quote:

"Tom K" <tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Following is the first chapter in my cruise review of our sailing on Crown
Princess to the Norwegian Fjords and North Cape. I'll do it in sections and
post them as I complete them (they're kind of long so if I have any spelling
or grammar errors. oops). I don't usually post my photos, but Charles
usually does. Maybe he'll get them up shortly and provide a link.

Hopefully Charles will chime in with his thoughts and insights as well.

Hope you all enjoy.

--Tom

Great review

I did wonder about one thing

Food

------

Yes I know food is subjective (but steaks as tough as shoe leather and fish
that smells really fishy aren't subjective). so here's my take.

Dinner Dining Room: Let me start off by saying all fish, seafood and steaks
are frozen. I'll provide more detail on that later. But basically, James
Deering the Hotel Director said that due to US CDC (Center for Disease
Control) requirements for ships that go to US Ports or have Americans on
board, pretty much all food on board is flown in from the US before being
loaded on board the ship. Fish and steaks come frozen by plane from the US.
Fish and meat are not sourced locally. The only thing we saw with a UK
label was the Yogurt.

Why does the CDC have anything to say about a ship that is not based
in the US doing a European cruise with mainly non-US pax?

And what health advantage would there be to having frozen food flown
in?

That sounds bogus to me - like they are making excuses for doing it
that. way.

If the CDC would require that, why can you buy overseas frozen food in U.S.
markets? I don't believe the CDC takes jurisdiction simply because Americans
are onboard.

Charles

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:02 pm

Guest

In article <C68A5F93.5AF0F%peters25@stockton.com>, peter
<peters25@stockton.com> wrote:

Quote:

If the CDC would require that, why can you buy overseas frozen food in U.S.
markets? I don't believe the CDC takes jurisdiction simply because Americans
are onboard.

Whether it is true or not that is what we were told. That the CDC would
not allow fish on board that did not come from the US because American
were on board. Also that they could not bring in fresh milk from the UK
or Europe because the pasteurization could not be confirmed. I am sure
the UK and European pasteurization is fine. We could have been told
bogus info but this was told to a group of about 30 to 40 people.

--
Charles

Susette

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:40 pm

Guest

On Jul 20, 2:57ï¿½pm, Rosalie B. <gmbeas...@mindspring.com> wrote:

Quote:

Susette <cruiseoutl...@aol.com> wrote:
peter...@stockton.com> wrote:
If the CDC would require that, why can you buy overseas frozen food in U.S.
markets? I don't believe the CDC takes jurisdiction simply because Americans
are onboard.

--
Charles

Charles and TOm and all the rest that are interested,

So many ships blend in together with me, ï¿½However when Bob and I were
on a RCCl forget what ship think it was a Liberty... We talked to a
Hotel director in the wee hours... ï¿½In speaking to him ï¿½He did say
that ALL RCCl ships get their provisions from USA and all ships get
the same things. and they said Nothing as far as the meets and Veggies
came from ï¿½other countries other then the sodas and alcohol and
such... FOund it to be interesting. So I concur what you were told is
most likely correct as I heard the same thing and I was told it comes
from Florida

I'm sure they are correct in that they get their food from the US and
quite a bit would have to be frozen. ï¿½

When I am disputing is that the CDC has anything to do with it. ï¿½I
don't think that they could dictate where a cruise ship got its food
from. ï¿½This is a corporate decision and probably is to save them money
as I see no other reason to do it. ï¿½Nothing to do with health of the
pax.

We were in Manta which is a HUGE tuna fishing port, and the fish we
had for dinner was from Alaska. ï¿½One of the people at the table asked
if it was local and was told that it was, but it wasn't. ï¿½They just
answered what they though was the desired answer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Where is Manta At rosalie I am not familiar with that port. I know
Malta but I think your speaking of somewhere else. Just curious

Mr Met 06

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:45 pm

Guest

On Jul 20, 4:18 pm, "Tom K" <tkani...@optonline.net> wrote:

Quote:

"Charles" <f...@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote in message

news:200720091210199904%fort@his.com.remove.invalid...

In article <4a6472c1$0$22509$607ed...@cv.net>, Tom K
tkani...@optonline.net> wrote:

This was my second time on the Crown Princess. Not my favorite ship..
and she still isn't. She's pretty much abysmal in high winds and
rough seas. In fact, she's pretty bad in any kind of seas other than
absolute calm.

I have been on Crown Princess three times and I don't agree that she is
abysmal in high seas or bad in other than calm seas. I think she about
average. I think the Royal Caribbean Voyager class handles rough seas a
little better but on any but the QM2 if it gets very rough passengers
are going to feel motion.

No offence Charles, but you don't get Seasick in the least... so asking you
if a ship is stable seems to akin to asking a deaf person if a Springsteen
concert was loud or not. : )

I guess you don't remember the Crown Princess getting bounced all over the
place on the way to and from Aruba? I do. But then I was the one
uncomfortable for those rough days. And uncomfortable for 2 days in the
North Sea.

--Tom

Welcome Tom .Hay Sue my son just got back from ocean city NJ .guess
what he got me a reel Min.Vikings hat with the horns !! I would be the
best viking on your cruise .I"m the biggest Viking fan here in NJ .And
when we get Favre It SB for this mighty Viking .I love to be on your
cruise .But i"m going to have to where it on the the Oasis & Dream B
TO B cruises in march !!

peter

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:20 pm

Guest

On 7/20/09 6:19 PM, in article 4a64990c$0$10287$607ed4bc@cv.net, "Tom K"
<tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Quote:

Why does the CDC have anything to say about a ship that is not based
in the US doing a European cruise with mainly non-US pax?

But the ship IS frequently US based, and will come over in a few weeks for
fall foliage sailings. And she had a lot of Americans on board. Most
European sailings are predominatly American. Ours was the exception. Plus
Carnival is a US based corporation.

It all depends on what you mean by "based". I believe the Princess ships
sail under the Bermuda flag, certainly not under the U.S. flag. Consequently
U.S. law does not apply on those ships. I believe Princess is a U.K.
Company, having offices in California. Carnival is actually two
corporations, neither of which is subject to U.S. law. One reason most
cruise lines avoid U.S. jurisdiction is the minimum wage in the U.S.

Rosalie B.

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:25 pm

Guest

"Tom K" <tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Quote:

"peter" <peters25@stockton.com> wrote in message
news:C68A5F93.5AF0F%peters25@stockton.com...
On 7/20/09 4:40 PM, in article 370965l7ihatmkdgkpajd1938kcpi648m7@4ax.com,
"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley@mindspring.com> wrote:

"Tom K" <tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Following is the first chapter in my cruise review of our sailing on
Crown
Princess to the Norwegian Fjords and North Cape. I'll do it in sections
and
post them as I complete them (they're kind of long so if I have any
spelling
or grammar errors. oops). I don't usually post my photos, but Charles
usually does. Maybe he'll get them up shortly and provide a link.

Hopefully Charles will chime in with his thoughts and insights as well.

Hope you all enjoy.

--Tom

Great review

I did wonder about one thing

Food

------

Yes I know food is subjective (but steaks as tough as shoe leather and
fish
that smells really fishy aren't subjective). so here's my take.

Dinner Dining Room: Let me start off by saying all fish, seafood and
steaks
are frozen. I'll provide more detail on that later. But basically,
James
Deering the Hotel Director said that due to US CDC (Center for Disease
Control) requirements for ships that go to US Ports or have Americans on
board, pretty much all food on board is flown in from the US before
being
loaded on board the ship. Fish and steaks come frozen by plane from the
US.
Fish and meat are not sourced locally. The only thing we saw with a UK
label was the Yogurt.

Why does the CDC have anything to say about a ship that is not based
in the US doing a European cruise with mainly non-US pax?

And what health advantage would there be to having frozen food flown
in?

That sounds bogus to me - like they are making excuses for doing it
that. way.

If the CDC would require that, why can you buy overseas frozen food in
U.S.
markets? I don't believe the CDC takes jurisdiction simply because
Americans
are onboard.

That's what the Hotel Director said. I'm just relaying what he said.

Perhaps frozen food imported into the US does fall under CDC or FDA control
and they can ensure the products are safe. I do know that pharmaceuticals
brought into the US from other countries have their manufacturing facilities
inspected routinely by the FDA. I would guess it's the same with imported
food.

I have been told things that were patently false by the ship people
when they either didn't know the answer to my question or wanted me to
go away and stop complaining. Their answers had nothing of the truth
in them - they were making excuses.

I can give examples if you like.

The CDC does inspect cruise ships and documents illnesses

Quote:

Twice each year, VSP staff inspect over 140 participating cruises ships while they are in a U.S. port. The inspections are financed by the vessel owners, and the fee is based on the ship's tonnage. The ships are judged against the "Vessel Sanitation Program Operations Manual", and each ships is given a score between 1 and 100. Only scores 86 and above are considered passing. If a ship fails an inspection, it will be inspected again during the next four to six weeks.

The inspectors check food, water, spas and pools, employee hygiene, and the general cleanliness of the ships. One advantage for cruise travelers is that the scores are published on the VSP website. In addition, CDC publishes the "Summary of Sanitation Inspections of International Cruise Ships", commonly referred to as the "green sheet." Over 6,000 travel-related services around the world receive the green sheet.

This is what the CDC says about it

Quote:

*#
*What VSP Does
*# The Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) assists the cruise ship industry to prevent and control the introduction, transmission, and spread of gastrointestinal illnesses (GI) on cruise ships. VSP operates under the authority of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. Section 264 Quarantine and Inspection Regulations to Control Communicable Diseases).
*# We accomplish this mission by:
*
* * inspecting cruise ships, including both periodic, unannounced operational sanitation inspections and scheduled construction inspections;
* * monitoring gastrointestinal illnesses and investigating or responding to outbreaks;
* * training cruise ship employees on public health practices;
* * providing health education and reliable and current public health information to the cruise ship industry, the traveling public, public health professionals, state and local health authorities, and the media.
*
*#
*Which cruise ships are in our jurisdiction?
*# Cruise ships under our jurisdiction:
*
* * carry 13 or more passengers, and
* * have a foreign itinerary with U.S. ports.

Note - this says NOTHING about requiring ships to use only US food.
And it also specifically says that they do the inspections in US
ports.

I looked up the Crown Princess's last inspection which was at the end
of April 2009 and on which they received a 99%

The summary was
08 PW filling hoses, caps, connections, procedures; Sample records,
valves; PW system constructed, maintained
16 Potentially hazardous food temperatures storage, preparation
display, service, transportation
20 PHF temperature maintenance facilities; Food-contact surfaces
designed, constructed, installed, maintained; TMD=s provided, located,
calibrated
21 Nonfood-contact surfaces designed, constructed, maintained,
installed, located
22 Dishwashing / equipment washing facilities designed, constructed,
maintained, installed, located, operated, TMDs, test kits
26 Food-contact surfaces equipment / utensils clean; Safe
27 Equipment / utensils non-food-contact surfaces clean
29 Facilities convenient, accessible, designed, installed
33 Decks / bulkheads / deckheads construction, repair, clean 1 point
deducted (this was the only point they lost out of 100)
34 Plumbing fixtures / supply lines / drain lines / drains installed,
repair
37 Rooms / equipment vented, humidity, condensation
41 Child Activity Centers facilities, diaper changing, operation
999 Miscellaneous

Number 16 was the only one that dealt with food - this was what that
said

Quote:

Site: Other-Bell Box
Violation: The time as a public health control plan stated condiments and dairy products are on time control. The plan also stated yogurts and milk kept out on the counter for service were on time control. However, the bulk milk dispenser was on temperature control according to staff. The milk and cream inside the dispenser were 46° F. There were discrepancies among the staff as to when the milk and cream were placed in the bulk dispensing unit. The milk and cream were discarded.
Recommendation:If time only, rather than time in conjunction with temperature, is used as the public health control for a working supply of potentially hazardous food before cooking, or for ready-to-eat potentially hazardous food that is displayed or held for service for immediate consumption, ensure that (1) The food is marked or otherwise identified to indicate the time that is 4 hours past the point in time when the food is removed from temperature control; (2) The food is cooked and served, served if ready-to-eat, or discarded, within 4 hours from the time when the food is removed from temperature control; and (3) The food in unmarked containers or packages or marked to exceed a 4 hour limit is discarded.
One other one that could be in that area but was really not.
Item No.: 20
Site: Galley-Deck 5 Bakery
Violation: The baguette roller had a felt belt.

The Crown Princess's worst inspection was 02/04/2007 when they got a
score of 89. The things listed included

Quote:

Violation: A large, sharp dent was noted on the top edge/seam of one large can of cream corn. This can was out of the original cardboard container. This item was discarded during the inspection.
Violation: The milk in the bulk milk dispenser was measured at 47-49°F. This item had been in the unit overnight and was on temperature control. The milk was discarded.
Violation: The cooling of several large pots of lobster bisque and gravy were not documented. These items were located in the walk-in refrigerator and were prepared several days earlier.

Rosalie B.

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:57 pm

Guest

Susette <cruiseoutlets@aol.com> wrote:

Quote:

peter...@stockton.com> wrote:
If the CDC would require that, why can you buy overseas frozen food in U.S.
markets? I don't believe the CDC takes jurisdiction simply because Americans
are onboard.

--
Charles

Charles and TOm and all the rest that are interested,

So many ships blend in together with me, However when Bob and I were
on a RCCl forget what ship think it was a Liberty... We talked to a
Hotel director in the wee hours... In speaking to him He did say
that ALL RCCl ships get their provisions from USA and all ships get
the same things. and they said Nothing as far as the meets and Veggies
came from other countries other then the sodas and alcohol and
such... FOund it to be interesting. So I concur what you were told is
most likely correct as I heard the same thing and I was told it comes
from Florida

I'm sure they are correct in that they get their food from the US and
quite a bit would have to be frozen.

When I am disputing is that the CDC has anything to do with it. I
don't think that they could dictate where a cruise ship got its food
from. This is a corporate decision and probably is to save them money
as I see no other reason to do it. Nothing to do with health of the
pax.

We were in Manta which is a HUGE tuna fishing port, and the fish we
had for dinner was from Alaska. One of the people at the table asked
if it was local and was told that it was, but it wasn't. They just
answered what they though was the desired answer.

Joseph Coulter

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:34 pm

Guest

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:20:19 +0200, peter <peters25@stockton.com>
wrote:

Quote:

On 7/20/09 6:19 PM, in article 4a64990c$0$10287$607ed4bc@cv.net, "Tom K"
tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Why does the CDC have anything to say about a ship that is not based
in the US doing a European cruise with mainly non-US pax?

But the ship IS frequently US based, and will come over in a few weeks for
fall foliage sailings. And she had a lot of Americans on board. Most
European sailings are predominatly American. Ours was the exception. Plus
Carnival is a US based corporation.

It all depends on what you mean by "based". I believe the Princess ships
sail under the Bermuda flag, certainly not under the U.S. flag. Consequently
U.S. law does not apply on those ships. I believe Princess is a U.K.
Company, having offices in California. Carnival is actually two
corporations, neither of which is subject to U.S. law. One reason most
cruise lines avoid U.S. jurisdiction is the minimum wage in the U.S.
Carnival Corp. CCL on NYSE is a US corporation

Profile Get Profile for:
Carnival Corp.
Carnival Place MSCD925N
3655 NW 87 Avenue
Miami, FL 33178-2428
United States - Map
Phone: 305-599-2600
Fax: 305-471-4700

The ships that it operates are not US for among other reasons to avoid
US unions, but all ships operate with "cooperative" agreements with
the US for various things including criminal law reporting and
investigations.
Joseph Coulter
Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations
www.josephcoulter.com

Tom K

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:59 pm

Guest

"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:1af965dto5hr8ieldn4rajulroddt3ml66@4ax.com...

Quote:

We were in Manta which is a HUGE tuna fishing port, and the fish we
had for dinner was from Alaska. One of the people at the table asked
if it was local and was told that it was, but it wasn't.

Alaska would count as US sourcing... at least last time I looked. Though
didn't Sarah Palin belong to some group that wanted Alaska to become a
separate country some time back?

Tom K

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:02 am

Guest

"peter" <peters25@stockton.com> wrote in message
news:C68A8203.5AF29%peters25@stockton.com...

Quote:

On 7/20/09 6:19 PM, in article 4a64990c$0$10287$607ed4bc@cv.net, "Tom K"
tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Why does the CDC have anything to say about a ship that is not based
in the US doing a European cruise with mainly non-US pax?

But the ship IS frequently US based, and will come over in a few weeks
for
fall foliage sailings. And she had a lot of Americans on board. Most
European sailings are predominatly American. Ours was the exception.
Plus
Carnival is a US based corporation.

It all depends on what you mean by "based". I believe the Princess ships
sail under the Bermuda flag, certainly not under the U.S. flag.
Consequently
U.S. law does not apply on those ships. I believe Princess is a U.K.
Company, having offices in California. Carnival is actually two
corporations, neither of which is subject to U.S. law. One reason most
cruise lines avoid U.S. jurisdiction is the minimum wage in the U.S.

You can play technicality with us here all you want (based, Bermuda,
flagged, whatever)... but I don't think the cruise ships will pay the
"technicality" card if the CDC tells them to do something. The corporation
has WAY too much at stake to piss off the Feds.

Tom K

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:18 am

Guest

"Charles" <fort@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote in message
news:200720091210199904%fort@his.com.remove.invalid...

Quote:

In article <4a6472c1$0$22509$607ed4bc@cv.net>, Tom K
tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

This was my second time on the Crown Princess. Not my favorite ship.
and she still isn't. She's pretty much abysmal in high winds and
rough seas. In fact, she's pretty bad in any kind of seas other than
absolute calm.

I have been on Crown Princess three times and I don't agree that she is
abysmal in high seas or bad in other than calm seas. I think she about
average. I think the Royal Caribbean Voyager class handles rough seas a
little better but on any but the QM2 if it gets very rough passengers
are going to feel motion.

No offence Charles, but you don't get Seasick in the least... so asking you
if a ship is stable seems to akin to asking a deaf person if a Springsteen
concert was loud or not. : )

I guess you don't remember the Crown Princess getting bounced all over the
place on the way to and from Aruba? I do. But then I was the one
uncomfortable for those rough days. And uncomfortable for 2 days in the
North Sea.

--Tom

peter

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:02 am

Guest

On 7/20/09 10:02 PM, in article 4a64cd63$0$22522$607ed4bc@cv.net, "Tom K"
<tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Quote:

"peter" <peters25@stockton.com> wrote in message
news:C68A8203.5AF29%peters25@stockton.com...
On 7/20/09 6:19 PM, in article 4a64990c$0$10287$607ed4bc@cv.net, "Tom K"
tkanitra@optonline.net> wrote:

Why does the CDC have anything to say about a ship that is not based
in the US doing a European cruise with mainly non-US pax?

But the ship IS frequently US based, and will come over in a few weeks
for
fall foliage sailings. And she had a lot of Americans on board. Most
European sailings are predominatly American. Ours was the exception.
Plus
Carnival is a US based corporation.

It all depends on what you mean by "based". I believe the Princess ships
sail under the Bermuda flag, certainly not under the U.S. flag.
Consequently
U.S. law does not apply on those ships. I believe Princess is a U.K.
Company, having offices in California. Carnival is actually two
corporations, neither of which is subject to U.S. law. One reason most
cruise lines avoid U.S. jurisdiction is the minimum wage in the U.S.

You can play technicality with us here all you want (based, Bermuda,
flagged, whatever)... but I don't think the cruise ships will pay the
"technicality" card if the CDC tells them to do something. The corporation
has WAY too much at stake to piss off the Feds.

I was just disputing your statements that the Princess ship "is .. US based"
and "has a lot of Americans on board" and the relevance of those assumed
facts. The ships are not US based and both statements are irrelevant for CDC
jurisdiction. You may not appreciate how blessed you are, but in the U.S.
the rule of law applies and the CDC will only tell Princess Ltd. something
if it has a legal basis to do so. The reasons quoted don't provide that
legal basis. The CDC doesn't get involved with Bermuda ships sailing in
northern Europe. I agree with Rosalie: the CDC has nothing to do with it and
the hotel director had no idea what he was talking about.

Charles

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:41 am

Guest

In article <C68AA818.5AF5A%peters25@stockton.com>, peter
<peters25@stockton.com> wrote:

Quote:

I agree with Rosalie: the CDC has nothing to do with it and
the hotel director had no idea what he was talking about.

I think the hotel director knew what he was talking about. You are the
one who has no idea.

--
Charles

Page 1 of 4 Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4 Next All times are GMT The time now is Fri May 18, 2012 7:11 am Travel Groups Forum Index