Following is the second chapter in my cruise review of our sailing on Crown
Princess to the Norwegian Fjords and North Cape. I'll do it in sections and
post them as I complete them.

This Chapter deals with our Cruise Critic Party. Charles, if you can think
of anything I missed, please fill in the blanks.

Next I'll get to info on the ports and sea days.

--Tom


One afternoon on a Sea Day, the Cruise Critic gang arranged an informal get
together on board, and invited both the Captain and the Hotel Director.
Both attended the party. The Captain was there briefly, but the Hotel
Director, James Deering stayed for about an hour and answered every question
asked of him. It was extremely insightful. There were (I'm guessing)
somewhere between 30-50 people in attendance.

Some of the points James made in reply to questions (apologies if I don't
state them exactly as he phrased them, which might cause come
misinterpretation) are as follows:

[snip see op for details]

--Someone asked about HAL service compared to Princess service, and he
commented regarding the Indonesian staff. He said that they go out of their
way to try to make you think they will do anything to make you happy, and
while they are indeed sincere about it, recognize that because they eat very
different things than passengers eat, and they don't drink alcohol at all,
they really have no clue as to what they are cooking, what they are serving,
or what they are bar tending for you. There's no way they can say the fish
tonight is better than the steak tonight, because they haven't ever eaten
the fish or steak as it's served to passengers. And chefs go strictly on
formula. they have no idea what they are cooking, or how it's supposed to
taste. They don't know or eat our spices.
Is it possible that some of this may be spin in favor of their line over

--Due to US CDC (Center for Disease Control) requirements for ships that go
to US Ports or have Americans on board, pretty much all food on board is
flown in from the US before being loaded on board the ship. Fish and steaks
come frozen by plane from the US. Since milk would be so difficult to fly,
they buy the European UHT milk. They cannot buy locally sourced milk since
they cannot ensure proper pasteurization. So if you think you're getting
fresh fish and seafood. think again. It's all frozen. The CDC requires it,
according to him.

--Someone asked about HAL service compared to Princess service, and he
commented regarding the Indonesian staff. He said that they go out of their
way to try to make you think they will do anything to make you happy, and
while they are indeed sincere about it, recognize that because they eat very
different things than passengers eat, and they don't drink alcohol at all,
they really have no clue as to what they are cooking, what they are serving,
or what they are bar tending for you. There's no way they can say the fish
tonight is better than the steak tonight, because they haven't ever eaten
the fish or steak as it's served to passengers. And chefs go strictly on
formula. they have no idea what they are cooking, or how it's supposed to
taste. They don't know or eat our spices.

On 7/20/2009 7:11 PM  Tom K while holding "Agent 99", exclaimed:

Following is the second chapter in my cruise review of our sailing on Crown
Princess to the Norwegian Fjords and North Cape.  I'll do it in sections and
post them as I complete them.

This Chapter deals with our Cruise Critic Party.  Charles, if you can think
of anything I missed, please fill in the blanks.

Next I'll get to info on the ports and sea days.

--Tom

One afternoon on a Sea Day, the Cruise Critic gang arranged an informal get
together on board, and invited both the Captain and the Hotel Director.
Both attended the party.  The Captain was there briefly, but the Hotel
Director, James Deering stayed for about an hour and answered every question
asked of him.  It was extremely insightful.  There were (I'm guessing)
somewhere between 30-50 people in attendance.

Some of the points James made in reply to questions (apologies if I don't
state them exactly as he phrased them, which might cause come
misinterpretation) are as follows:

[snip see op for details]  

--Someone asked about HAL service compared to Princess service, and he
commented regarding the Indonesian staff.  He said that they go out of their
way to try to make you think they will do anything to make you happy, and
while they are indeed sincere about it, recognize that because they eat very
different things than passengers eat, and they don't drink alcohol at all,
they really have no clue as to what they are cooking, what they are serving,
or what they are bar tending for you.  There's no way they can say the fish
tonight is better than the steak tonight, because they haven't ever eaten
the fish or steak as it's served to passengers.  And chefs go strictly on
formula. they have no idea what they are cooking, or how it's supposed to
taste.  They don't know or eat our spices.

Is it possible that some of this may be spin in favor of their line over
HAL?  Spin is telling the truth but omitting some key facts, to put the
home team in a better light then the competition in these kinds of
questions.  This is an area for exploration by Consumer Reports, or some
investigative travel writer. It may very well be that both cruise lines
send those food workers to culinary or bartending school catering to the
American pallet.

--
________
 To  email me, Edit "blog" from my email address.
  Brian M. Kochera  
 "The poor dog is the firmest friend, the first to welcome the foremost to defend" - Lord Byron
 View My Web Page:http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

Is it possible that some of this may be spin in favor of their line over
HAL? Spin is telling the truth but omitting some key facts, to put the
home team in a better light then the competition in these kinds of
questions.

And apparently unconditionally believed by the Tom & Charles couple. On
cdc.gov you will find CDC's vessel sanitation program applies only to
vessels carrying 13 passengers or more AND on an foreign itinerary with U.S.
ports. The number of Americans are on board is completely irrelevant. There
is no jurisdiction if the ship is sailing in Europe. You'll also find there
are rules for local purchases (contradicting the statement everything must
be flown in from the US); rules for freezing fish (contradicting what is
said above about fish). In other words the hotel director was bs-ing.

In article <C68B48A4.5AF96%peters25@stockton.com>, peter
peters25@stockton.com> wrote:

And apparently unconditionally believed by the Tom & Charles couple. On
cdc.gov you will find CDC's vessel sanitation program applies only to
vessels carrying 13 passengers or more AND on an foreign itinerary with U.S.
ports. The number of Americans are on board is completely irrelevant. There
is no jurisdiction if the ship is sailing in Europe. You'll also find there
are rules for local purchases (contradicting the statement everything must
be flown in from the US); rules for freezing fish (contradicting what is
said above about fish). In other words the hotel director was bs-ing.

You conveniently leave out this section:

"Cruise ships under VSP¹s jurisdiction are subject to two inspections
each year. If a ship sails outside of the United States for an extended
period of time, it may not be inspected twice a year but will be
inspected again when it returns to the United States."

You conveniently leave out this section:

"Cruise ships under VSP¹s jurisdiction are subject to two inspections
each year. If a ship sails outside of the United States for an extended
period of time, it may not be inspected twice a year but will be
inspected again when it returns to the United States."

No he was not BS-ing. He was saying that the rules for local purchases
can't be met. They can't validate that local suppliers are following
the CDC rules.

--Someone asked about HAL service compared to Princess service, and he
commented regarding the Indonesian staff.  He said that they go out of their
way to try to make you think they will do anything to make you happy, and
while they are indeed sincere about it, recognize that because they eat very
different things than passengers eat, and they don't drink alcohol at all,
they really have no clue as to what they are cooking, what they are serving,
or what they are bar tending for you.  There's no way they can say the fish
tonight is better than the steak tonight, because they haven't ever eaten
the fish or steak as it's served to passengers.  And chefs go strictly on
formula. they have no idea what they are cooking, or how it's supposed to
taste.  They don't know or eat our spices.

Pretty racist statements by the hotel director about the crew of another
Carnival subsidiary's employees. Amazing - given that these Indonesians
"have no clue as to what they are cooking" - that In CruiseCritics ship
ratings dining on HAL ships is rated better than that on Princess ships;
most HAL ships have a rating higher than the 4.1 accorded to the Crown
Princess.

He just came over to Crown Princess from working on HAL ships. Also HAL
and Princess are both owned by Carnival.

The person we listened to is a subject matter expert.  
snip
End of discussion.

Following is the second chapter....

--Princess is expected to sign (hopefully shortly) a contract for 2 more
ships based on the Grand Princess design. They won't be exact sisters to
Crown Princess. They've recognized by adding the additional passenger deck
that some additional public space is also needed. So the design will
incorporate that.

--Since he's responsible for the budget, he was able to quote specifics
regarding Personal Choice dining vs. Traditional dining. He said that it
takes 15% more staff to man a Personal Choice dining room. And since they
have to have a sufficient number of each meal prepared at different times,
there is 15% more food cost (due to waste of food not used) in the Personal
Choice dining rooms. He said that the term "traditional" isn't really
traditional. from the old days. Back then everything was open seating. The
cost conscious cruise lines implemented the 6:00 and 8:30 assigned times
because it's the cheapest way to do it. With that pattern they can most
easily predict usage with the least waste. And run with the least number of
people, since there is no randomness to headcount needs.

I do not understand how Personal Choice dining requires more staff and

--Due to US CDC (Center for Disease Control) requirements for ships that go
to US Ports or have Americans on board, pretty much all food on board is
flown in from the US before being loaded on board the ship. Fish and steaks
come frozen by plane from the US. Since milk would be so difficult to fly,
they buy the European UHT milk. They cannot buy locally sourced milk since
they cannot ensure proper pasteurization. So if you think you're getting
fresh fish and seafood. think again. It's all frozen. The CDC requires it,
according to him.

Well you already know what I think about THAT

--Someone asked about whether tips are pooled. He said all tips (up to the
level of automatic tips) are pooled. If you think paying by cash will make
it go directly to your waiter, not so. What he did say however, was any
cash over and above the level of auto tips might go to the specific person.
However there's a catch. only if it's voted on by the entire crew. If they
vote you can keep it, then you can, but if they vote that it gets pooled,
then it gets pooled. He didn't say if that vote changed from sailing to
sailing or on different ships. He said the crew doesn't like him to say
that they vote, because passengers might not tip higher than automatic
amounts.

It seems to me that a vote to pool the extra tips would have an

--Someone asked about HAL service compared to Princess service, and he
commented regarding the Indonesian staff. He said that they go out of their
way to try to make you think they will do anything to make you happy, and
while they are indeed sincere about it, recognize that because they eat very
different things than passengers eat, and they don't drink alcohol at all,
they really have no clue as to what they are cooking, what they are serving,
or what they are bar tending for you. There's no way they can say the fish
tonight is better than the steak tonight, because they haven't ever eaten
the fish or steak as it's served to passengers. And chefs go strictly on
formula. they have no idea what they are cooking, or how it's supposed to
taste. They don't know or eat our spices.

I wouldn't trust what the waiters said about the food anyway. They

--He did say Casino's are no longer a big money maker. Photography is now a
much larger money maker. He said Americans are drinking less, smoking less,
and gambling less. So instead they need to make on board revenue from other
areas like the photos, art auctions, specialty restaurants, and shore
excursion. With alcohol sales down, they've increased alcohol prices, thus
further compounding the problem of less alcohol sales. They're now pushing
photos much more than ever before.

I haven't found the photographers as pushy on my last couple of

--He said due to limited bandwidth and expensive satellite costs, internet
operations on ships were not money makers either. The ship operations, crew
and passengers all share the same bandwidth. And the ship operations us the
majority of the bandwidth. (Passenger internet is essentially a bolt on to
something required for day to day ship operations.)

I can believe this - I never thought that the internet was any kind of

--Regarding Norovirus, he said that the CDC instructed them to stop using
the gels. People consider that an alternative to washing their hands. They
now make it a point to leave public rest room doors open, to minimize people
using the door handles. Since they've stopped using gels (they're using up
the last of the supplies voluntarily) and leaving doors open, the virus has
significantly declined.

I find nothing on the CDC website that specifically prohibits the use

The subject was whether CDC rules require flying in frozen food from the
US
when sailing in Europe, a ridiculous idea, that you apparently sincerely
believe. No such rule exists. That the ship may be inspected if and when
it
is in a U.S. port, based on the rule I quoted myself, is irrelevant. Try
to
think straight.

I do not understand how Personal Choice dining requires more staff and
more food on HAL.

How do restaurants on shore operate effectively
with what is basically personal choice dining? I don't think they
waste 15% of their food or they would go out of business.

Either HAL

has failed to organize their kitchen effectively for personal choice
or there is something else going on, because if it really required
more staff and more food, then I can't see why any of the cruise lines
would do it.

"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3tab65dohmoftdqkp3dno9f00r689e1glm@4ax.com...

I do not understand how Personal Choice dining requires more staff and
more food on HAL.

We weren't on HAL. At least stick with the discussion. It was Princess.

We didn't go on HAL. In fact I've never even
been on HAL

With the traditional dining, there IS randomness to the head counts as
long as people can go to the buffet or have room service. We were
on one HAL repositioning cruise where a couple at our table came to
dinner twice and then never showed up again. Empty seats for the
entire rest of the cruise.

I am going to respond to just one little piece of this. Remember

"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3tab65dohmoftdqkp3dno9f00r689e1glm@4ax.com...

I do not understand how Personal Choice dining requires more staff and
more food on HAL.

We weren't on HAL. At least stick with the discussion. It was Princess.

*On Jul 21, 5:51 am, Charles <f...@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote:
*
*> He just came over to Crown Princess from working on HAL ships.

How do restaurants on shore operate effectively
with what is basically personal choice dining? I don't think they
waste 15% of their food or they would go out of business.

Most shore restaurants don't try to serve 4000 people every evening. Plus
ship menus change daily, restaurant menus typically don't. You can't
compare the two. Most shore restaurants don't cook the food until it's
ordered. Shore restrurants can keep things in a refrigerator and use them
the next day. It's a very different model.

That's true.

And yes shore restaurants do have extra meals that go wasted. In NYC there
are trucks that bring those meals to people in need.

Either HAL

It's not HAL. It's Princess. We didn't go on HAL. In fact I've never even
been on HAL

Well then

has failed to organize their kitchen effectively for personal choice
or there is something else going on, because if it really required
more staff and more food, then I can't see why any of the cruise lines
would do it.

Then you might also not grasp why Royal Caribbean would put an expensive ice
rink on their ships. They must cost a lot of money to maintain.

Did you ever think it might be from the point of view of attracting
customers? To differentiate yourself from the competition. Spend a little
to make a lot more by filling your ships. And they have a lot of ships to
fill.

Remember the old slogan. It costs money to make money.

--Tom

I don't remember that slogan - I thought it was "It takes money to

--Someone asked about HAL service compared to Princess service, and he
commented regarding the Indonesian staff.  He said that they go out of their
way to try to make you think they will do anything to make you happy, and
while they are indeed sincere about it, recognize that because they eat very
different things than passengers eat, and they don't drink alcohol at all,
they really have no clue as to what they are cooking, what they are serving,
or what they are bar tending for you.  There's no way they can say the fish
tonight is better than the steak tonight, because they haven't ever eaten
the fish or steak as it's served to passengers.  And chefs go strictly on
formula. they have no idea what they are cooking, or how it's supposed to
taste.  They don't know or eat our spices.

Pretty racist statements by the hotel director about the crew of another
Carnival subsidiary's employees. Amazing - given that these Indonesians
"have no clue as to what they are cooking" - that In CruiseCritics ship
ratings dining on HAL ships is rated better than that on Princess ships;
most HAL ships have a rating higher than the 4.1 accorded to the Crown
Princess.

Peter,

Not racist. The HD was making an interesting factual point that had
never occurred to me--because of Islamic dietary laws, a preponderance
of HAL's dining and service staff may not have personally tasted the
food they prepare and serve.

I thought HAL's food was bland. I've read many reviews attributing the
lack of seasoning/spices to the fact that a majority of HAL's
passengers are seniors. I have never understood this rationale and
firmly reject the notion that my taste buds will go bland on me when I
cross some magic numerical marker!
Indonesian cuisine is very spicy, so I would not blame the blandness on the

Diana Ball
Austin, TX

Not sure what dietary laws you are referring to. Muslims, like Jews, are not
supposed to eat pork. But you'll find babi pangang (roasted pork) is a very
popular dish in Indonesia. You don't really believe, do you, that HAL puts
people in charge of the kitchen that " have no idea what they are cooking"?
That's just as silly as saying or believing that food needs to be flown in
from the US to a ship sailing near Norway.

I thought HAL's food was bland. I've read many reviews attributing the
lack of seasoning/spices to the fact that a majority of HAL's
passengers are seniors. I have never understood this rationale and
firmly reject the notion that my taste buds will go bland on me when I
cross some magic numerical marker!

Indonesian cuisine is very spicy, so I would not blame the blandness on the
Indonesians. Here's what Berlitz says about the food on the Sea Princess:
"the food...is bland of taste. The quality of the fish is poor." Who would
the HD blame for that?