In article <7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman ruins
in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete than most
in Greece. But I don't know that.

What about the islands, Mykonos and Santorini and all that?

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:06:18 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... > You beat me to it. If he does not like Ephesus, I'll throw him in the
... > Styx.
...
... I didn't say that I didn't like it.
...
... I said that it was disappointing. I had expected a site of its reputation
... to be significantly more complete than it was

Ok, I'll rephrase it - If you are disappointed with Ephesus, I'll throw you in the Styx.

Just because things have reputations that cover millennia, it does not mean that they are
"big", let alone "complete". Bits and pieces are scattered in museums all over the world.
If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia, for instance, it's because they are
in the Louvre. Look for others in Berlin, and everywhere else.

(I was disappointed with Notre Dame the first time I saw it, I thought it was very small.
Now, years later, I find it huge...)

poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

In article <7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman ruins
in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete than most
in Greece. But I don't know that.

What about the islands, Mykonos and Santorini and all that?

Mykonos and Santorini are oddities, not at all typical of the Greek islands.
Mykonos in particular only became well-known by accident after it was visited
on the 60s by Jacky Kennedy and Onassis. Thereafter it was developed as an
international playground to the point now when it resembles a Disney
theme-park more than anything else, complete with imported tame pelicans,
reconstructed windmills and all the rest of it. The only reason to go to
Mykonos is a trip to Delos.

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:03:22 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "bartc"
bartc@freeuk.com
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... news:9mcp65he6uq6l6dq1rdvvdot49hcgeiao7@4ax.com...
... > On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:33:23 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "bartc"
... > <bartc@freeuk.com
... > arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
...
... > ... I've never been to Greece... How good are they at understanding
... > English?
...
... > Stay home.
...
... Unless the first or second language in the destination is one of
English,
... French, Spanish, or Italian, that's exactly what I do...

I just can't believe the barriers some people will put up, just for the
"fun" of it.

"Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:p2iq65he20gb9u3ft6q9sg7o2hb3jkqfp1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:03:22 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "bartc"
bartc@freeuk.com
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... news:9mcp65he6uq6l6dq1rdvvdot49hcgeiao7@4ax.com...
... > On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:33:23 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "bartc"
... > <bartc@freeuk.com
... > arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
...
... > ... I've never been to Greece... How good are they at understanding
... > English?
...
... > Stay home.
...
... Unless the first or second language in the destination is one of
English,
... French, Spanish, or Italian, that's exactly what I do...

I just can't believe the barriers some people will put up, just for the
"fun" of it.

Eh? What barriers?

What fun?

poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

In article <7d33etF29tsffU1@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Reading the road signs is the hard part. However it's easier than
Cyrillic
which sometimes I find imposible!

No English signs?

Nearly all road signs are written both using the Greek alphabet and
trasliterated into Latin characters.

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:06:18 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

...
... > You beat me to it. If he does not like Ephesus, I'll throw him in
the
... > Styx.
...
... I didn't say that I didn't like it.
...
... I said that it was disappointing. I had expected a site of its
reputation
... to be significantly more complete than it was

Ok, I'll rephrase it - If you are disappointed with Ephesus, I'll throw
you in the Styx.

Just because things have reputations that cover millennia, it does not
mean that they are
"big", let alone "complete". Bits and pieces are scattered in museums all
over the world.

If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia,

"Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:p2iq65he20gb9u3ft6q9sg7o2hb3jkqfp1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:03:22 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "bartc"
bartc@freeuk.com
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... news:9mcp65he6uq6l6dq1rdvvdot49hcgeiao7@4ax.com...
... > On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:33:23 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "bartc"
... > <bartc@freeuk.com
... > arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
...
... > ... I've never been to Greece... How good are they at understanding
... > English?
...
... > Stay home.
...
... Unless the first or second language in the destination is one of
English,
... French, Spanish, or Italian, that's exactly what I do...

I just can't believe the barriers some people will put up, just for the
"fun" of it.

Eh? What barriers? What fun?

"Mike Lane" <mike.lane.usenet@ntlworld.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C693146500023A59B01AD9AF@news.virginmedia.com...
poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

In article <7d33etF29tsffU1@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Reading the road signs is the hard part. However it's easier than
Cyrillic
which sometimes I find imposible!

No English signs?

Nearly all road signs are written both using the Greek alphabet and
trasliterated into Latin characters.

I disagree. Signs on the motorway might be, but others were not.

I'm talking about names of places and streets which definitely are usually

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:42:51 +0100, Mike Lane
mike.lane.usenet@ntlworld.co.uk
wrote:

poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

In article <7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins
in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete than
most
in Greece. But I don't know that.

What about the islands, Mykonos and Santorini and all that?

Mykonos and Santorini are oddities, not at all typical of the Greek
islands.
Mykonos in particular only became well-known by accident after it was
visited
on the 60s by Jacky Kennedy and Onassis. Thereafter it was developed as an
international playground to the point now when it resembles a Disney
theme-park more than anything else, complete with imported tame pelicans,
reconstructed windmills and all the rest of it. The only reason to go to
Mykonos is a trip to Delos.

and Santorini has been ruined by tourism?

Martin wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:42:51 +0100, Mike Lane
mike.lane.usenet@ntlworld.co.uk
wrote:

poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

In article <7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins
in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete than
most
in Greece. But I don't know that.

What about the islands, Mykonos and Santorini and all that?

Mykonos and Santorini are oddities, not at all typical of the Greek
islands.
Mykonos in particular only became well-known by accident after it was
visited
on the 60s by Jacky Kennedy and Onassis. Thereafter it was developed as an
international playground to the point now when it resembles a Disney
theme-park more than anything else, complete with imported tame pelicans,
reconstructed windmills and all the rest of it. The only reason to go to
Mykonos is a trip to Delos.

and Santorini has been ruined by tourism?


Well yes, certainly for me, but I suppose in this case the landscape itself
has qualities that even that level of gross over-tourism can't altogether
destroy

"Runge16" <philsa@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:4a6a925f$0$12641$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
Lol


why do you come here?

tim

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:15:09 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

...
... "Runge16" <philsa@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
... news:4a6a925f$0$12641$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
... > Lol
...
...
... why do you come here?
...
... tim

He does not have a life.


I'm sorry you didn't like your trip very much (looks like it so far). I
loved Epidauro and
have great memories (and pictures) from Naufplia.

The last time I visited the Acropolis it was mid-September; I arrived
there at 9 in the
morning and had to wait around for a long time for the light to be
"right". I don't
remember that many tourists there so early... What's it with October?


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:15:25 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

...
... But this is my point. Just because lots of things have been found
there and
... moved to museums doesn't necessarily make the site itself of special
tourist
... interest. Guide books should remember that

Use your own judgement!

... > If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia,
...
... Every part of the building above the first row of stones does not
correspond
... to " a few bits and pieces"

The Louvre does not have *all* the bits missing at Olympia. Try Germany.

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:s2go651rcb42opnu2t9misr9bcr8ru8oms@4ax.com...

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:33:23 GMT, "bartc" <ba...@freeuk.com> wrote:

"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net...

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gaqm65pctbq2db7oetnv5hr9amf15pkqk0@4ax.com...

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

To see the ancient ruins.

You seem to have missed things we visited along the route you took.

such as?

Which guide book did you use?

How can I have known before I went that they weren't as spectacular as I
imagined :-(

By looking at photos in guide books and on Internet?

no!

They were exactly as I imagined them.

They is less there than I imagined there would be.

They are also "reconstructing" them in bright new marble.  I haven't really
got tot this point yet, but I didn't think it improved the sites

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete
than most in Greece.  But I don't know that.

The ancient sites in Turkey are more complete and the food and hotels are
better
and cheaper.

Turkey is on my list for later.  Perhaps this year!





There's quite a nice temple in Paestum, Italy. Saved me a trip to Athens
(I
take it these things all look pretty much the same.)

and Ostia Antica is almost as good as Pompeii :-)

I've never been to Greece, being put off by the language (which always
reminds me of a maths textbook). How good are they at understanding
English?

More than adequate unless you go to somewhere very remote. In some areas
people
are fluent in German & French too.
--

Martin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jul 26, 3:17 pm, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:





"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:s2go651rcb42opnu2t9misr9bcr8ru8oms@4ax.com...

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:33:23 GMT, "bartc" <ba...@freeuk.com> wrote:

"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net...

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gaqm65pctbq2db7oetnv5hr9amf15pkqk0@4ax.com...

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

To see the ancient ruins.

You seem to have missed things we visited along the route you took.

such as?

Which guide book did you use?

How can I have known before I went that they weren't as spectacular as I
imagined :-(

By looking at photos in guide books and on Internet?

no!

They were exactly as I imagined them.

They is less there than I imagined there would be.

They are also "reconstructing" them in bright new marble.  I haven't really
got tot this point yet, but I didn't think it improved the sites

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete
than most in Greece.  But I don't know that.

The ancient sites in Turkey are more complete and the food and hotels are
better
and cheaper.

Turkey is on my list for later.  Perhaps this year!

I thought Pergammon / Bergama was great, Efes was too chocca,
Palmukkale and Cappadocia are a must, Topkapi Museum in Istanbul is
another highlight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Mike Lane" <mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk> wrote in message

news:0001HW.C693146500023A59B01AD9AF@news.virginmedia.com...

poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

In article <7d33etF29tsf...@mid.individual.net>,
 "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Reading the road signs is the hard part.  However it's easier than
Cyrillic
which sometimes I find imposible!

No English signs?

Nearly all road signs are written both using the Greek alphabet and
trasliterated into Latin characters.

I disagree.  Signs on the motorway might be, but others were not.

Fortunately (in Greece) where they are written in capital letter they are
usually easily readable as there are far fewer different letters than "lower
case".

tim