Martin wrote on Jul 27, 2009:





On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:42:51 +0100, Mike Lane
mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk
wrote:

poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

In article <7d2m0oF29tem...@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins
in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete than
most
in Greece.  But I don't know that.

What about the islands, Mykonos and Santorini and all that?

Mykonos and Santorini are oddities, not at all typical of the Greek
islands.
Mykonos in particular only became well-known by accident after it was
visited
on the 60s by Jacky Kennedy and Onassis. Thereafter it was developed as an
international playground to the point now when it resembles a Disney
theme-park more than anything else, complete with imported tame pelicans,
reconstructed windmills and all the rest of it. The only reason to go to
Mykonos is a trip to Delos.

and Santorini has been ruined by tourism?

Well yes, certainly for me, but I suppose in this case the landscape itself
has qualities that even that level of gross over-tourism can't altogether
destroy

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:25:28 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

...
... > Use your own judgement!
...
... Well one can only do that after they have seen the site
...
... And my judgment is that there isn't much left

There are pictures of all the sites all over the net.

Of course "there isn't much left".

Complete sites have no need for archaeologists;

they
are called "cities" and are inhabited by living people. BTW, I'm
astonished you didn't
mention that there is no ceiling in the Parthenon...

... > ... > If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia,
... > ...
... > ... Every part of the building above the first row of stones does
not
... > correspond
... > ... to " a few bits and pieces"
...
... > The Louvre does not have *all* the bits missing at Olympia. Try
Germany.
...
... Eh?

Ok, try London.

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:25:28 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... > Use your own judgement!
...
... Well one can only do that after they have seen the site
...
... And my judgment is that there isn't much left

There are pictures of all the sites all over the net.

Of course "there isn't much left". Complete sites have no need for archaeologists; they
are called "cities" and are inhabited by living people. BTW, I'm astonished you didn't
mention that there is no ceiling in the Parthenon...

...
... > ... > If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia,
... > ...
... > ... Every part of the building above the first row of stones does not
... > correspond
... > ... to " a few bits and pieces"
...
... > The Louvre does not have *all* the bits missing at Olympia. Try Germany.
...
... Eh?

Ok, try London.

On 26 July, 17:04, Fiebre Del Sabado Noche <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Jul 26, 3:17 pm, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:





"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:s2go651rcb42opnu2t9misr9bcr8ru8oms@4ax.com...

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:33:23 GMT, "bartc" <ba...@freeuk.com> wrote:

"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net...

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gaqm65pctbq2db7oetnv5hr9amf15pkqk0@4ax.com...

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

To see the ancient ruins.

You seem to have missed things we visited along the route you took.

such as?

Which guide book did you use?

How can I have known before I went that they weren't as spectacular as I
imagined :-(

By looking at photos in guide books and on Internet?

no!

They were exactly as I imagined them.

They is less there than I imagined there would be.

They are also "reconstructing" them in bright new marble.  I haven't really
got tot this point yet, but I didn't think it improved the sites

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete
than most in Greece.  But I don't know that.

The ancient sites in Turkey are more complete and the food and hotels are
better
and cheaper.

Turkey is on my list for later.  Perhaps this year!

I thought Pergammon / Bergama was great, Efes was too chocca,
Palmukkale and Cappadocia are a must, Topkapi Museum in Istanbul is
another highlight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Priene is one of our favourites. A 'city for culture' that has
beautiful stuff - and you'll probably be alone there!

On 27 July, 13:01, Mike Lane <mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk> wrote:
Martin wrote on Jul 27, 2009:





On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:42:51 +0100, Mike Lane
mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk
wrote:

poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

In article <7d2m0oF29tem...@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins
in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete than
most
in Greece.  But I don't know that.

What about the islands, Mykonos and Santorini and all that?

Mykonos and Santorini are oddities, not at all typical of the Greek
islands.
Mykonos in particular only became well-known by accident after it was
visited
on the 60s by Jacky Kennedy and Onassis. Thereafter it was developed as an
international playground to the point now when it resembles a Disney
theme-park more than anything else, complete with imported tame pelicans,
reconstructed windmills and all the rest of it. The only reason to go to
Mykonos is a trip to Delos.

and Santorini has been ruined by tourism?

Well yes, certainly for me, but I suppose in this case the landscape itself
has qualities that even that level of gross over-tourism can't altogether
destroy

Have you not been to Akrotiri?

On 26 July, 17:04, Fiebre Del Sabado Noche <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com
wrote:



On Jul 26, 3:17 pm, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:s2go651rcb42opnu2t9misr9bcr8ru8oms@4ax.com...

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:33:23 GMT, "bartc" <ba...@freeuk.com> wrote:

"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net...

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gaqm65pctbq2db7oetnv5hr9amf15pkqk0@4ax.com...

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

To see the ancient ruins.

You seem to have missed things we visited along the route you took.

such as?

Which guide book did you use?

How can I have known before I went that they weren't as spectacular as I
imagined :-(

By looking at photos in guide books and on Internet?

no!

They were exactly as I imagined them.

They is less there than I imagined there would be.

They are also "reconstructing" them in bright new marble.  I haven't really
got tot this point yet, but I didn't think it improved the sites

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete
than most in Greece.  But I don't know that.

The ancient sites in Turkey are more complete and the food and hotels are
better
and cheaper.

Turkey is on my list for later.  Perhaps this year!

I thought Pergammon / Bergama was great, Efes was too chocca,
Palmukkale and Cappadocia are a must, Topkapi Museum in Istanbul is
another highlight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Priene is one of our favourites. A 'city for culture' that has
beautiful stuff - and you'll probably be alone there!

Surreyman

magda fraulein SS wakes up

"Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:08bm65tsnl0bidub0k3qqv5028sr0iuidf@4ax.com...
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:15:09 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked
like this:

...
... "Runge16" <philsa@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
... news:4a6a925f$0$12641$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
... > Lol
...
...
... why do you come here?
...
... tim

He does not have a life.


I'm sorry you didn't like your trip very much (looks like it so
far). I loved Epidauro and
have great memories (and pictures) from Naufplia.

The last time I visited the Acropolis it was mid-September; I arrived
there at 9 in the
morning and had to wait around for a long time for the light to be
"right". I don't
remember that many tourists there so early... What's it with October?


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

"Mike Lane" <mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk> wrote in message

news:0001HW.C693146500023A59B01AD9AF@news.virginmedia.com...

poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:

In article <7d33etF29tsf...@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Reading the road signs is the hard part. However it's easier than
Cyrillic
which sometimes I find imposible!

No English signs?

Nearly all road signs are written both using the Greek alphabet and
trasliterated into Latin characters.

I disagree. Signs on the motorway might be, but others were not.

Fortunately (in Greece) where they are written in capital letter they are
usually easily readable as there are far fewer different letters than
"lower
case".

tim

There are only relatively few characters in Greek & Russian to learn
and transpose.

Since there's then a linguistic base with English
(partly, anyway!), it's amazing how signs then leap out as
understandable. Well worth doing.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 09:38:28 -0500, in rec.travel.europe, "Gregory Morrow"
sssdsssss@ssssdsss.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... Runge16 blabbles:
...
... > magda fraulein SS wakes up
...
...
... Remember, "Arbeit macht frei", scRunge - so wake up and get to work...!!!
...
... Lol...

I think he likes life in prison...

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:21:37 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... news:bq1t65du53g3pq57c5noigv5s665daq7i7@4ax.com...
... > On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:25:28 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
... > <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
... > this:
...
... > ...
... > ... > Use your own judgement!
... > ...
... > ... Well one can only do that after they have seen the site
... > ...
... > ... And my judgment is that there isn't much left
...
... > There are pictures of all the sites all over the net.
...
... But why would I look for them?
...
... > Of course "there isn't much left".
...
... There's a difference between only one layer of stones and something more
... substantial.
...
... > Complete sites have no need for archaeologists;
...
... This is demonstrably false. Archaeologists dig up cities all the time

Sites, yes. Cities, only when they discover a site under the city...


... But in any case illustrates my point. A site which is archaeological
... interesting is often not touristically interesting, most tourists are not
... archaeologists
...
... > they
... > are called "cities" and are inhabited by living people. BTW, I'm
... > astonished you didn't
... > mention that there is no ceiling in the Parthenon...
...
... Very funny.
...
... > ... > ... > If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia,
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... Every part of the building above the first row of stones does
... > not
... > ... > correspond
... > ... > ... to " a few bits and pieces"
... > ...
... > ... > The Louvre does not have *all* the bits missing at Olympia. Try
... > Germany.
... > ...
... > ... Eh?
...
... > Ok, try London.
...
... Eh, the city that things have been moved to is completely irrelevant to my
... reply
...
... Martin justified his position by saying "only half a dozen piece (of the
... ruins) were missing".

...
... I replied with, everything above the first layer of stone does not qualify
... as "only half a dozen". My point being that it's "almost everything"!

No.

I rest my case.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:17:07 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, Martin <me@address.invalid
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... You are Mixi. I recognise his legal wig and hiking boots.

I beg your pardon!!

My hair is real, little sir!

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:21:37 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

...
... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... news:bq1t65du53g3pq57c5noigv5s665daq7i7@4ax.com...
... > On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:25:28 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
... > <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked
like
... > this:
...
... > ...
... > ... > Use your own judgement!
... > ...
... > ... Well one can only do that after they have seen the site
... > ...
... > ... And my judgment is that there isn't much left
...
... > There are pictures of all the sites all over the net.
...
... But why would I look for them?
...
... > Of course "there isn't much left".
...
... There's a difference between only one layer of stones and something
more
... substantial.
...
... > Complete sites have no need for archaeologists;
...
... This is demonstrably false. Archaeologists dig up cities all the time

Sites, yes. Cities, only when they discover a site under the city...


... But in any case illustrates my point. A site which is archaeological
... interesting is often not touristically interesting, most tourists are
not
... archaeologists
...
... > they
... > are called "cities" and are inhabited by living people. BTW, I'm
... > astonished you didn't
... > mention that there is no ceiling in the Parthenon...
...
... Very funny.
...
... > ... > ... > If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia,
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... Every part of the building above the first row of stones
does
... > not
... > ... > correspond
... > ... > ... to " a few bits and pieces"
... > ...
... > ... > The Louvre does not have *all* the bits missing at Olympia.
Try
... > Germany.
... > ...
... > ... Eh?
...
... > Ok, try London.
...
... Eh, the city that things have been moved to is completely irrelevant
to my
... reply
...
... Martin justified his position by saying "only half a dozen piece (of
the
... ruins) were missing".
...
... I replied with, everything above the first layer of stone does not
qualify
... as "only half a dozen". My point being that it's "almost everything"!

No.

I rest my case.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:13:19 +0200, Magda <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:21:37 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

...
... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... news:bq1t65du53g3pq57c5noigv5s665daq7i7@4ax.com...
... > On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:25:28 +0100, in rec.travel.europe,
"tim....."
... > <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked
like
... > this:
...
... > ...
... > ... > Use your own judgement!
... > ...
... > ... Well one can only do that after they have seen the site
... > ...
... > ... And my judgment is that there isn't much left
...
... > There are pictures of all the sites all over the net.
...
... But why would I look for them?
...
... > Of course "there isn't much left".
...
... There's a difference between only one layer of stones and something
more
... substantial.
...
... > Complete sites have no need for archaeologists;
...
... This is demonstrably false. Archaeologists dig up cities all the
time

Sites, yes. Cities, only when they discover a site under the city...


... But in any case illustrates my point. A site which is archaeological
... interesting is often not touristically interesting, most tourists are
not
... archaeologists
...
... > they
... > are called "cities" and are inhabited by living people. BTW, I'm
... > astonished you didn't
... > mention that there is no ceiling in the Parthenon...
...
... Very funny.
...
... > ... > ... > If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia,
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... Every part of the building above the first row of stones
does
... > not
... > ... > correspond
... > ... > ... to " a few bits and pieces"
... > ...
... > ... > The Louvre does not have *all* the bits missing at Olympia.
Try
... > Germany.
... > ...
... > ... Eh?
...
... > Ok, try London.
...
... Eh, the city that things have been moved to is completely irrelevant
to my
... reply
...
... Martin justified his position by saying "only half a dozen piece (of
the
... ruins) were missing".

I don't think I did. Maybe another Martin?

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:30:12 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, Martin <me@address.invalid
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:11:55 +0200, Magda <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote:
...
... >On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:17:07 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, Martin <me@address.invalid
... >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
...
... > ...
... > ... You are Mixi. I recognise his legal wig and hiking boots.
...
... >I beg your pardon!!
...
... >My hair is real, little sir!
...
... So is Mixi's hair. You have a lot in common.

Mixi's wig was made with your hair?

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:52:03 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... news:cacu655850d76qon5djm4pkbdtekq0p4cf@4ax.com...
... > On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:21:37 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
... > <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
... > this:
...
... > ...
... > ... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... > ... news:bq1t65du53g3pq57c5noigv5s665daq7i7@4ax.com...
... > ... > On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:25:28 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
... > ... > <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked
... > like
... > ... > this:
... > ...
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... > Use your own judgement!
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... Well one can only do that after they have seen the site
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... And my judgment is that there isn't much left
... > ...
... > ... > There are pictures of all the sites all over the net.
... > ...
... > ... But why would I look for them?
... > ...
... > ... > Of course "there isn't much left".
... > ...
... > ... There's a difference between only one layer of stones and something
... > more
... > ... substantial.
... > ...
... > ... > Complete sites have no need for archaeologists;
... > ...
... > ... This is demonstrably false. Archaeologists dig up cities all the time
...
... > Sites, yes. Cities, only when they discover a site under the city...
...
...
... > ... But in any case illustrates my point. A site which is archaeological
... > ... interesting is often not touristically interesting, most tourists are
... > not
... > ... archaeologists
... > ...
... > ... > they
... > ... > are called "cities" and are inhabited by living people. BTW, I'm
... > ... > astonished you didn't
... > ... > mention that there is no ceiling in the Parthenon...
... > ...
... > ... Very funny.
... > ...
... > ... > ... > ... > If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia,
... > ... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... > ... Every part of the building above the first row of stones
... > does
... > ... > not
... > ... > ... > correspond
... > ... > ... > ... to " a few bits and pieces"
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... > The Louvre does not have *all* the bits missing at Olympia.
... > Try
... > ... > Germany.
... > ... > ...
... > ... > ... Eh?
... > ...
... > ... > Ok, try London.
... > ...
... > ... Eh, the city that things have been moved to is completely irrelevant
... > to my
... > ... reply
... > ...
... > ... Martin justified his position by saying "only half a dozen piece (of
... > the
... > ... ruins) were missing".
... > ...
... > ... I replied with, everything above the first layer of stone does not
... > qualify
... > ... as "only half a dozen". My point being that it's "almost everything"!
...
... > No.
...
... > I rest my case.
...
... I still don't understand how what you are saying is a valid response to my
... point

Never mind.