Well as this was the next request I'll do this

The trip was last October so I will have forgotten some stuff, so we'll
see how it goes. This is the very end of the summer season, some places
are still open on their summer schedule and some have moved to the their
winter one, but everything is open all week.

I flew with EZY from LGW out to Athens and back from Thessalonica. I had
two days in Athens followed by 14 days car hire and the motivation was to
visit all (most) of the major historic sites.

Day 1) This didn't really exist as my afternoon flight arrived at about
21:00. This gives me just enough time to get the metro to my hotel in
time for bed. I've commented before that the, twice an hour, service on
this line is most useless I have encountered to an airport, but so it is.
I was booked at the Best Western Pythagorion for two days (one of three
hotels that I pre-booked) as it was a known name in an easy to find
location - a short walk from Omonoia station. This hotel was OK, but not
great, though it did have the advantage of having a reasonably priced mini
bar, the only time (I think) that I have ever used the a mini bar with my
own money! I've written "Take soap" on my notes, so I assume that means
there wasn't any provided!

Day 2) Breakfast was entirely missable, some of the worst quality food
that I think that I have ever seen presented in a hotel. Today could have
been a disaster, as there is a transport strike. There are no trains (at
all) to the airport and the other metro lines are only running 09:00 to
17:00 (apparently a last minute concession). I catch the metro to
Acropolis. I buy a day (transport) ticket which is about the cost of four
single tickets. Even with the restricted service I will make good use of
it.

Entrance is a relatively expensive 12 Euro but does include a ticket to
5/6 other sights around the city. I get the impression that most people
just visit the Acropolis and discard the rest of the ticket, possibly
because information about how to get to them is somewhat lacking. The
Acropolis gets very busy and it is advisable to arrive early, but I am too
late and it is already very crowded especially with guided tours and quite
off-putting. After visiting the top of the hill I wandered around lower
down and found some, but not all, of the extra attractions on my ticket -
Thesio Agora being particularly worthwhile, probably more interesting than
the Acropolis itself, due to the lack of crowds. The Acropolis museum was
closed when I was there, you may have seen reports that it has recently
reopened on a new site (somewhere!).

I go back to Omonoia and visit the other attractions along the main road
to Syntagma, but none are particularly interesting.

Catch the metro out to Piraeus. The port area at the end is awful. I've
noticed in the past that it's common for people to suggest staying here
because hotels are cheaper. IMHO this is a bad idea. Hotels in the
centre aren't particularly expensive and this area looks so grotty you
really want to avoid staying here. If your motivation is for an easy
transfer to a ship then it might be recommended, but to save a few Euro
wouldn't be my advice!

The guide book recommends a visit to Zea, a picturesque bay across the
other side of town. There are lots of buses here but it doesn't seem to
be possible to do this trip without changing, so I walk. Turns out to be
quite a hike, up a hill and then back down again. And when I get there
it's not what I was expecting, I was expecting "natural" beauty, instead
it's expensive hotels/restaurants/yachts prettiness. I catch the bus back
to the port.

Wander along the road to the suburban railway to see if that's running
today, but it's not (actually there is one trip each way which I have
missed) so I have to return to the centre on the metro, get back about one
train before the last. I used my ticket 6 times so I was right to buy it.
As I'm staying in the centre there are lots of restaurants and I choose
one for an early dinner. I forget what I had, but it was something Greek
(you'll see the significance of this comment later)

After dinner I walk along to the main line station to see if the main line
trains are running, but no they're out as well. Good job today wasn't a
day for a long trip!

Day 3) I pick my car up at the airport because (when I booked) I couldn't
find the location of the downtown office. I have booked a hotel in
Loutraki for two nights so I don't have to drive around looking for one. I
drive first to the ruins at Mycenae which I find a bit disappointing. The
setting is wonderful, the quantity of the remains is lacking and it was
bloody hot, but I can't blame the ruins for that. Back to the ruins at
Neama I arrive about 15 minutes before it is to close (it has moved to its
winter schedule) so the man lets me in for free, this is quite
interesting. But there's no time for the stadium which is along the road
a bit. Visit Ancient Corinth (still on a summer schedule!) which is great
and then drive to see the canal - even better.

The little (spa) resort of Loutraki is quite pretty with lots of hotels.
It is quite hard to find mine as the supplied map is wrong, it's shown as
being right in the centre, when in fact it's 2km outside! I ask a taxi
driver and he is surprisingly helpful. It's a "beach resort" hotel used
to taking German package tours. I have a choice of 5 German TV channels
and no English ones. This is their final week of the season and it's
almost empty. The deal is for dinner B&B and I find that the pre-booked
price that I paid is exactly the same as the walk up price. In reality I
didn't need to pre book this. Dinner is a buffet and is a mediocre
standard, the worse sword fish that I have even had, but plenty of other
things to try!

Day 4) Drive to Epidauros, which I find disappointing. The theatre's
good, but there is much too much "modern" reconstruction on the rest of
the site. Then the town of Nafplio, quite pretty and overlooked by the
Palamidi fort. I decline the massive walk up to the top which I notice
some people are doing. I discover later that I could have driven up to
the top on the other side of the hill. Then to Tiryns, really
disappointing, hardly worth stopping for IMHO and then the town of Argos
with the adjacent Larissa castle - interesting.

Off to Neama once more to go to the Stadium. Again I arrive 15 minutes
before it closes and am let in for free. This is quite fun. Finally,
back at Corinth I visit Alte Korinthos, the medieval castle on the top of
the hill. It takes me ages to find the right road - I can see exactly
where I want to get to and just keep on turning in the right direction
until I get there, though I do have to back track a couple of time. This
is always free (probably because of the difficulty of getting there) and
open all daylight hours. It's a massive site and as well as being really
great in its own right there are wonderful views across the bays (both
ways) from the top. Meet up with a couple of Americans who are on an
EasyCruise. I ask how they got there and they say they hired a taxi to
take them and wait. I don't enquire how much the waiting costs, but they
say that the journey alone was a very reasonable charge (I forget how
much). (BTW they also say that they were warned not to expect much from
the cruise, and it didn't exceed expectations!)

I walk back down with them and they need to arrange another taxi for a
second couple from the cruise who's taxi isn't waiting. They had hoped to
call one from the small cafe, but by this time it has closed. They make
some complicated arrangements for the first taxi to get another one to
come back (they don't want to go immediately otherwise I would have given
them a lift). But if you want a taxi there and back, don't forget your
mobile phone!

Day 5) I drive along the coast road to Leonid, Geraki and Sparta, none of
which are as interesting as the guide book bills, though the coast road is
spectacular. Then off to Mystra. I'm expecting this to be open until 7,
but find it's on its winter opening and shuts at 3. It is now 1:15 and as
it's a massive site I'm not sure that this is enough time, but I give it a
go. I manage to do the lower and upper town, but have to miss out the
castle at the top. The palace is closed for reconstruction so that's a
disappointing miss, but otherwise this is a wonderful place, pity about
the rushed visit.

Back in the town I find the only hotel and get a room. I note from the
guest list that it has been less than half full all this month. Go out
into the main square and there are more restaurants (4) than potential
diners (3). I've written that I had meatballs, there was probably
something different about them, but I forget what!

More tomorrow!

tim

Lol


why do you come here?

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:15:09 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

...
... "Runge16" <philsa@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
... news:4a6a925f$0$12641$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
... > Lol
...
...
... why do you come here?
...
... tim

He does not have a life.


I'm sorry you didn't like your trip very much (looks like it so far). I
loved Epidauro and
have great memories (and pictures) from Naufplia.

The last time I visited the Acropolis it was mid-September; I arrived
there at 9 in the
morning and had to wait around for a long time for the light to be
"right". I don't
remember that many tourists there so early... What's it with October?

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:30:51 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

...
... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... news:08bm65tsnl0bidub0k3qqv5028sr0iuidf@4ax.com...
... > On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:15:09 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
... > <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked
like
... > this:
...
... > ...
... > ... "Runge16" <philsa@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
... > ... news:4a6a925f$0$12641$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
... > ... > Lol
... > ...
... > ...
... > ... why do you come here?
... > ...
... > ... tim
...
... > He does not have a life.
...
...
... > I'm sorry you didn't like your trip very much (looks like it so
far). I
... > loved Epidauro and
... > have great memories (and pictures) from Naufplia.
...
... No, I liked my trip (I am always very negative, I try not to be, but
never
... manage it).
...
... I just thought that some of the ancient sites were overrated. As I
said in
... the other report, I don't rate a place based upon its history, only on
... what's still left to see and ISTM that some of the internationally
... recognised site are less interesting that some of the lesser known
ones.

Agreed. I loved the one at Elevsina (Eleusis) and all the time I was there
I saw only one
group of tourists, from Clio, at that. Dodoni is also a nice site, but far
away from the
beaten path, thank heavens - when we visited it, apart from us, there was
only another
couple at the the site.

... > The last time I visited the Acropolis it was mid-September; I
arrived
... > there at 9 in the
... > morning and had to wait around for a long time for the light to be
... > "right". I don't
... > remember that many tourists there so early... What's it with
October?
...
... I didn't arrive until 10:00

Not what I call "early"!

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:46:30 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... Where was I?
...
... Day 6) Today's breakfast was also missable, though for a different reason to
... the first. This was the first hotel that I stayed in that didn't supply a
... buffet and the offered breakfast was tiny, a couple of pieces of bread, a
... small piece of cheese, some jam and butter and a piece of marble cake, it
... seems the marble cake is a Greek favourite at breakfast, most breakfasts
... were to offer it.
...
... Drove west to Kalamata where the traffic was awful. Eventually got to the
... front of the congestion and discovered that it was caused by that modern
... curse, the car boot sale, who would have thought it? Detour via Messini
... which is on a massive site and quite interesting. Then drove to the west
... coast to the village of Pilos which the guide book recommended. This was
... quite pretty but much more modern that I was expecting. And then on to
... Olympia.

...
... Here is the last of my pre booked hotels, where I am to stay for two days.
... I am across the street from the railway station so it is easy to find. I
... wander along the main street on my way to the ruins and it is full of
... tourists, hundreds of them. There are hundreds in the ruins as well, I
... wonder where all these people are staying.
...
... I find out when I go out for my evening meal as there are about 30 coaches
... all departing the town at the same time, so none of them are staying. It
... seems that this is just a day trip destination and only a very few people
... actually stop over in the evening. Looking for a restaurant (of which there
... are many serving the lunchtime trade) I note that they almost exclusive
... offer the well known Greek cuisine of pizza and spaghetti bolognese! Are
... there really no Greek dishes on offer? I find one that has a slightly more
... varied menu and choose roast pork with beetroot, I don't recognise this as a
... Greek dish, but at least it is different!

...
... Day 7) A side trip to the temple of Apollo at Vasses. This is the biggest
... disappointment of the trip. It seems that the temple is slowly falling down
... due to subsidence of the underlying ground and they are taking it apart, row
... by row, putting in a solid base and building it back on top. Whilst they do
... this it is surrounded by a huge plastic tent and your only view is from
... inside this tent. It's been like this for the last 15 years and is
... scheduled to be like it for another 15! It's in a stunning location on the
... top of the hill and unlike many of the other monuments it's almost complete,
... but because of this tent you cant get a view of it from further away that
... three metres. There's a nice picture of it in my guide book. Looks like
... that's the best view I'm ever going to get.
...
... Day Drive over the stunning new(ish) bridge at Patra and onto the ruins
... at Delphi. I don't normally have much time for the museums at
... archaeological sites, but this one is amazing. There is some really good
... stuff here, well recommended. But, once again, I find the actual ruin
... itself overrated and less interesting that I expected.
...
... Delphi village is full of hotels of every class. It consist of two one way
... roads and every second house is a hotel or restaurant, but there is no
... parking. I don't really want to try and squeeze my car into one of the few
... "on road" spaces so I look for something else. I find the 4* Amalia Hotel
... with its own car park just up the hill and go in and ask the price. The guy
... looks me up and down like he's trying to assess "what I will pay" and says
... 70 Euro. I ask if that's with breakfast and he says yes, so I take it.
... It's the most expensive hotel of my trip but only by a few Euro, but it's
... the best hotel by a mile. Inside the room I note that the rack rate is 170,
... plus 25 for breakfast so you really can get a good deal outside of the main
... season. I'm walking distance from the village and for dinner I visit one of
... the restaurants recommended by my guide.
...
... Day 9) Today is "Monastery" day. I start with Osiou Louka, which would have
... been good, but for the scaffolding surrounding it, but that was only
... temporary and just my bad luck. Then off to the Meteora where it is
... mid-afternoon by the time that I arrive. Visiting the Meteora monasteries
... is quite difficult as they all have different opening hours. They all close
... for one or more mid week days, with at least one being closed each day, some
... close for a long lunch and open in the later afternoon, some close for the
... day, just after lunch. This is not helped by today being a Bank Holiday and
... my not realising it. Nor by the hours shown in my guide book (from 2007)
... being completely wrong. I manage to find 3 of the monasteries that are open
... that afternoon.
...
... I find a small pension on the monastery road to stay in. It has no stars
... but has all the necessary facilities, though the owner is a bit over
... friendly for my liking, presenting me with lots of small gifts and taking a
... big interest in what I have done. He is, of course, most interested in
... getting me to recommend his hotel to people and getting it in my guide book
... (which is not really in my gift, is it!). It is 36 Euro. I drive off to
... Kalastri to try to find one of the recommended restaurants, but the only one
... that I can find is closed for the day, so I have to eat somewhere else. I
... have souvlaki and chips, for the nth time this week, because that is the
... only Greek dish on the menu (and I do wish that they would serve it with
... something other than chips!)
...
... Day 10) I wake up to find a really dull day. I am fortunate that the other
... three monasteries are all open at some point today so I manage to visit
... them, but taking pictures of the views is impossible. I also make a side
... trip to Stena Portas to see the scenic bridge and the sanctuary church at
... Pangaia Portas. However the church is closed and the is no evidence at all
... that it ever opens (to tourists). When I get back to the Meteora the
... weather has cleared and I am able to take some photos. I have dinner in my
... hotel. The owner has an outside fire which he uses as a barbeque, though as
... I'm his only guest this seems a bit unnecessary. All he can offer me is
... grilled pork or chicken so I choose the pork and get a huge chop with veg
... and salad plus a local beer for 10 Euro.
...
... A few comments about visiting the monasteries. There is a train service to
... the local town of Kalambaka but there are no buses to the monasteries,
... though I think there are some tour buses. Walking the route around all of
... them is about 15 km, or you can hitch. A few people asked me for a lift but
... I was always (honest) going in the wrong direction. As above, only on the
... weekends can you visit all the monasteries on the same day. Even in a car
... there is a lot of walking, the highest has 265 steps to reach it and three
... others over 100. They are well worth it though - very interesting.
...
... Day 11) Drive west on the road to Ioannina. This isn't very far but it's a
... bendy, hilly road and there are a lot of trucks on the route so you don't
... make good progress. It goes over the highest pass in Greece and at the top
... is a skiing resort. They are replacing part of this route with a motorway,
... but it isn't completed yet so I have to stay on the bendy road. The guide
... book recommends a stop at the village of Metsovo, not impressed - a waste of
... time! Detour to the ruins at Dodoni, they are also very insignificant.

You are decidedly never happy! What would it take, the oak tree under which Zeus would
sit??

... At Ioannina there is an interesting old town with a mosque and lake on which
... is an island with 5 more monasteries. Most of the people on the ferry are
... locals and there are few tourists. The ferry has a strange operating
... practice whereby everybody (except me!) gets on/off before it has actually
... landed, the UK safety people would be horrified. On the island there is
... limited information about the monasteries and I only find two of them. Both
... of which are apparently closed. There are indications that you have to get
... the key from the local house but there is no-one there either. I just
... wander around for a bit and after a while someone appears who can open up
... one of them. It's quite stunning inside, though no pictures are allowed.
... It's a shame that it's so hard to see inside, perhaps it's easier in August?
...
... Drive up to see the gorge at Ferangi Vikou. This is quite pretty but it's a
... very wooded area and the views are not that spectacular. At 1000 metres
... high it's too far to do the round trip to the river (apparently it's a full
... day!) so I just view from the top.
...
... It is getting dark so I look for a hotel. I end up in the very small
... village of Monodendri where there is quite a few to choose from for such a
... small, out of the way, place. According to the price list this is the high
... season, but the hotel is still half empty and it is the cheapest that I have
... stayed in. It is however very well appointed, so no complaints. I have
... dinner in the village which is completely dead (apart from me) in the
... evening.
...
... More tomorrow
...
... tim
...

=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.
--

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:23:52 +0200, Magda <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:46:30 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

... Day 11) Drive west on the road to Ioannina. This isn't very far but
it's a
... bendy, hilly road and there are a lot of trucks on the route so you
don't
... make good progress. It goes over the highest pass in Greece and at
the top
... is a skiing resort. They are replacing part of this route with a
motorway,
... but it isn't completed yet so I have to stay on the bendy road. The
guide
... book recommends a stop at the village of Metsovo, not impressed - a
waste of
... time! Detour to the ruins at Dodoni, they are also very
insignificant.

You are decidedly never happy! What would it take, the oak tree under
which Zeus would
sit??

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gaqm65pctbq2db7oetnv5hr9amf15pkqk0@4ax.com...

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

To see the ancient ruins.

How can I have known before I went that they weren't as spectacular as I
imagined :-(

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete
than most in Greece. But I don't know that.

"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net...

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gaqm65pctbq2db7oetnv5hr9amf15pkqk0@4ax.com...

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

To see the ancient ruins.

How can I have known before I went that they weren't as spectacular as I
imagined

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete
than most in Greece. But I don't know that.

There's quite a nice temple in Paestum, Italy. Saved me a trip to Athens (I
take it these things all look pretty much the same.)

I've never been to Greece, being put off by the language (which always
reminds me of a maths textbook). How good are they at understanding English?

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:s2go651rcb42opnu2t9misr9bcr8ru8oms@4ax.com...

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:33:23 GMT, "bartc" <ba...@freeuk.com> wrote:

"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net...

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gaqm65pctbq2db7oetnv5hr9amf15pkqk0@4ax.com...

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

To see the ancient ruins.

You seem to have missed things we visited along the route you took.

such as?

Which guide book did you use?

How can I have known before I went that they weren't as spectacular as I
imagined :-(

By looking at photos in guide books and on Internet?

no!

They were exactly as I imagined them.

They is less there than I imagined there would be.

They are also "reconstructing" them in bright new marble.  I haven't really
got tot this point yet, but I didn't think it improved the sites

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete
than most in Greece.  But I don't know that.

The ancient sites in Turkey are more complete and the food and hotels are
better
and cheaper.

Turkey is on my list for later.  Perhaps this year!

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:48:43 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

 ... > ...
 ... > ... I didn't arrive until 10:00
 ...
 ... > Not what I call "early"!
 ...
 ... It is when it's your first day and your body clock is two hours behind
 ...
 ... tim

When I board the plane the first thing I do is correct my watch to the time of the country
I'm going to. When I get there, my mind is already used to it. The body follows, it always
does...

====> It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

. I drive
first to the ruins at Mycenae which I find a bit disappointing. The setting
is wonderful, the quantity of the remains is lacking and it was bloody hot,
but I can't blame the ruins for that.

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:33:23 GMT, "bartc" <bartc@freeuk.com> wrote:


"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net...

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gaqm65pctbq2db7oetnv5hr9amf15pkqk0@4ax.com...

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

To see the ancient ruins.

You seem to have missed things we visited along the route you took.

Which guide book did you use?


How can I have known before I went that they weren't as spectacular as I
imagined :-(

By looking at photos in guide books and on Internet?

They were exactly as I imagined them.

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete
than most in Greece. But I don't know that.

The ancient sites in Turkey are more complete and the food and hotels are
better
and cheaper.

There's quite a nice temple in Paestum, Italy. Saved me a trip to Athens
(I
take it these things all look pretty much the same.)

and Ostia Antica is almost as good as Pompeii :-)


I've never been to Greece, being put off by the language (which always
reminds me of a maths textbook). How good are they at understanding
English?

More than adequate unless you go to somewhere very remote. In some areas
people
are fluent in German & French too.
--

Martin

I've never been to Greece, being put off by the language (which always
reminds me of a maths textbook). How good are they at understanding English?

"tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7d2m0oF29temeU1@mid.individual.net...

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gaqm65pctbq2db7oetnv5hr9amf15pkqk0@4ax.com...

I can't understand why he went to Greece.

To see the ancient ruins.

How can I have known before I went that they weren't as spectacular as I
imagined :-(

I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete
than most in Greece. But I don't know that.

There's quite a nice temple in Paestum, Italy. Saved me a trip to Athens
(I take it these things all look pretty much the same.)

I've never been to Greece, being put off by the language

(which always reminds me of a maths textbook). How good are they at
understanding English?