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| tim..... |
 Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:06 am |
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Guest
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"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:gopu65l8a50lnaa3kk05k82pqdu9b2cash@4ax.com...
Quote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:54:33 +0200, Magda <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote:
...
... I still don't understand how what you are saying is a valid response
to my
... point
Never mind.
Take your case and go!
BTW it was French and then German archeologists who excavated Olympia, not
the
British. Hence anything that is missing was probably in Berlin until the
end of
WWII. The German built museum was still in Olympia when we were last there
in
1997. It was no longer in use, but the German Eagle was still intact on
the
building.
I'm not (never was) talking about the bits that were missing because
somebody moved them after the site was restored in recent history..
I'm talking about the bits that are missing because they were never
recovered due to them: weathering away, got destroyed in an earthquake, got
taken away and reused in ancient times or whatever
> |
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| Magda |
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:15 am |
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On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:53:23 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
<tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
...
... "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
... news:0icu65h4re2croucv816un4u9g705h9eep@4ax.com...
... > On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:13:19 +0200, Magda <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote:
... >
... >>On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:21:37 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "tim....."
... >><tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
... >>this:
... >>
... >> ...
... >> ... "Magda" <Nonono@gmail.com> wrote in message
... >> ... news:bq1t65du53g3pq57c5noigv5s665daq7i7@4ax.com...
... >> ... > On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:25:28 +0100, in rec.travel.europe,
... >> "tim....."
... >> ... > <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> arranged some electrons, so they looked
... >> like
... >> ... > this:
... >> ... >
... >> ... > ... >
... >> ... > ... > Use your own judgement!
... >> ... > ...
... >> ... > ... Well one can only do that after they have seen the site
... >> ... > ...
... >> ... > ... And my judgment is that there isn't much left
... >> ... >
... >> ... > There are pictures of all the sites all over the net.
... >> ...
... >> ... But why would I look for them?
... >> ...
... >> ... > Of course "there isn't much left".
... >> ...
... >> ... There's a difference between only one layer of stones and something
... >> more
... >> ... substantial.
... >> ...
... >> ... > Complete sites have no need for archaeologists;
... >> ...
... >> ... This is demonstrably false. Archaeologists dig up cities all the
... >> time
... >>
... >>Sites, yes. Cities, only when they discover a site under the city...
... >>
... >>
... >> ... But in any case illustrates my point. A site which is archaeological
... >> ... interesting is often not touristically interesting, most tourists are
... >> not
... >> ... archaeologists
... >> ...
... >> ... > they
... >> ... > are called "cities" and are inhabited by living people. BTW, I'm
... >> ... > astonished you didn't
... >> ... > mention that there is no ceiling in the Parthenon...
... >> ...
... >> ... Very funny.
... >> ...
... >> ... > ... > ... > If you noticed half a dozen pieces missing at Olympia,
... >> ... > ... > ...
... >> ... > ... > ... Every part of the building above the first row of stones
... >> does
... >> ... > not
... >> ... > ... > correspond
... >> ... > ... > ... to " a few bits and pieces"
... >> ... > ... >
... >> ... > ... > The Louvre does not have *all* the bits missing at Olympia.
... >> Try
... >> ... > Germany.
... >> ... > ...
... >> ... > ... Eh?
... >> ... >
... >> ... > Ok, try London.
... >> ...
... >> ... Eh, the city that things have been moved to is completely irrelevant
... >> to my
... >> ... reply
... >> ...
... >> ... Martin justified his position by saying "only half a dozen piece (of
... >> the
... >> ... ruins) were missing".
... >
... > I don't think I did. Maybe another Martin?
...
... Oh sorry. I must have misremembered who's comment it was
...
... tim
Whose.
=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does. |
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| Surreyman |
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:05 pm |
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On 28 July, 10:40, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
Quote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman
alandavid.spen...@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 27 July, 13:01, Mike Lane <mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk> wrote:
Martin wrote on Jul 27, 2009:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:42:51 +0100, Mike Lane
mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk
wrote:
poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:
In article <7d2m0oF29tem...@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins
in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete than
most
in Greece. But I don't know that.
What about the islands, Mykonos and Santorini and all that?
Mykonos and Santorini are oddities, not at all typical of the Greek
islands.
Mykonos in particular only became well-known by accident after it was
visited
on the 60s by Jacky Kennedy and Onassis. Thereafter it was developed as an
international playground to the point now when it resembles a Disney
theme-park more than anything else, complete with imported tame pelicans,
reconstructed windmills and all the rest of it. The only reason to go to
Mykonos is a trip to Delos.
and Santorini has been ruined by tourism?
Well yes, certainly for me, but I suppose in this case the landscape itself
has qualities that even that level of gross over-tourism can't altogether
destroy
Have you not been to Akrotiri?
That was the highlight of our visit to Santorini in 1980. The low point was
going up the cliffs from the ferry on the back of a donkey.
--
Martin- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
We cheated and drove up.
But walking down the steps nackered our calf muscles for 24 hours!
Surreyman |
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| Martin |
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:36 pm |
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On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman
<alandavid.spencer@googlemail.com> wrote:
Quote: On 28 July, 10:40, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Surreyman
alandavid.spen...@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 27 July, 13:01, Mike Lane <mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk> wrote:
Martin wrote on Jul 27, 2009:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:42:51 +0100, Mike Lane
mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk
wrote:
poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:
In article <7d2m0oF29tem...@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins
in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete than
most
in Greece. But I don't know that.
What about the islands, Mykonos and Santorini and all that?
Mykonos and Santorini are oddities, not at all typical of the Greek
islands.
Mykonos in particular only became well-known by accident after it was
visited
on the 60s by Jacky Kennedy and Onassis. Thereafter it was developed as an
international playground to the point now when it resembles a Disney
theme-park more than anything else, complete with imported tame pelicans,
reconstructed windmills and all the rest of it. The only reason to go to
Mykonos is a trip to Delos.
and Santorini has been ruined by tourism?
Well yes, certainly for me, but I suppose in this case the landscape itself
has qualities that even that level of gross over-tourism can't altogether
destroy
Have you not been to Akrotiri?
That was the highlight of our visit to Santorini in 1980. The low point was
going up the cliffs from the ferry on the back of a donkey.
We cheated and drove up.
But walking down the steps nackered our calf muscles for 24 hours!
We drove down. We were directed to the wrong ferry in Paros. We knew about the
donkey path. My wife was 5 months pregnant and I suffer from vertigo. The donkey
tried to throw me off all the way up. By chance we stayed in accommodation close
to where the donkeys are kept a night. The poor things worked at least a 16 hour
day.
--
Martin |
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| Mike Lane |
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:02 pm |
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Guest
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Surreyman wrote on Jul 29, 2009:
Quote: On 28 July, 10:40, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
That was the highlight of our visit to Santorini in 1980. The low point was
going up the cliffs from the ferry on the back of a donkey.
We cheated and drove up.
But walking down the steps nackered our calf muscles for 24 hours!
The fact that the steps are covered from top to bottom in donkey droppings
and smell strongly of the same doesn't help either.
--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire |
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| Mister B |
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:54 am |
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On Jul 25, 8:46 pm, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Quote: Drove west to Kalamata where the traffic was awful.
You omit to mention that the drive from Mystra to Kalamata is
stunningly beautiful.
Quote: Day 7) A side trip to the temple of Apollo at Vasses. This is the biggest
disappointment of the trip.
And this is just plain wrong. Well, depending on your expectation,
maybe not, but the fact remains that even with what you can see of the
temple, plus it's fabulous location, the visit is well worth it. I
first went there in (approximately) 1982, and stayed in a shitty hotel
Xenia (the other option, Hotel Bassae, is/was propped over a huge
precipice and looks structurally unsound) in the nearby town of
Andritsena, took a taxi to Bassae in order to be there at sunrise. It
was a truly magical experience. (For background reading I recommend
Gods, Graves and Scholars by Vincent Scully).
cheers,
B; |
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| Mister B |
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:01 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 27, 2:43 pm, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
Quote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:01:17 +0100, Mike Lane <mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk
wrote:
Martin wrote on Jul 27, 2009:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:42:51 +0100, Mike Lane
mike.lane.use...@ntlworld.co.uk
wrote:
poldy wrote on Jul 27, 2009:
In article <7d2m0oF29tem...@mid.individual.net>,
"tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I suppose the problem is that I have previously seen many Greco-Roman
ruins
in Italy, Spain and N Africa many of which are far more complete than
most
in Greece. But I don't know that.
What about the islands, Mykonos and Santorini and all that?
Mykonos and Santorini are oddities, not at all typical of the Greek
islands.
Mykonos in particular only became well-known by accident after it was
visited
on the 60s by Jacky Kennedy and Onassis. Thereafter it was developed as an
international playground to the point now when it resembles a Disney
theme-park more than anything else, complete with imported tame pelicans,
reconstructed windmills and all the rest of it. The only reason to go to
Mykonos is a trip to Delos.
and Santorini has been ruined by tourism?
Well yes, certainly for me, but I suppose in this case the landscape itself
has qualities that even that level of gross over-tourism can't altogether
destroy
I haven't been to Santorini since 1980. It was already on the limit then when
cruise ships called. I was relying on info from friends who have visited since.
Photos show far more development than when we were there. A good earthquake
might get it back to a more normal place.
I was there in 1980 (ish) and again last year. It is still fantastic,
and a very small effort gets you away from the mad crowds.
B; |
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| Mister B |
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:07 am |
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On Jul 30, 10:49 am, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Quote: "Mister B" <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4d0210ec-7a34-420f-9ead-0c3f52a45eec@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 25, 8:46 pm, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Drove west to Kalamata where the traffic was awful.
You omit to mention that the drive from Mystra to Kalamata is
stunningly beautiful.
Day 7) A side trip to the temple of Apollo at Vasses. This is the biggest
disappointment of the trip.
And this is just plain wrong. Well, depending on your expectation,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------
I explained why, because you simply cannot view the complete monument in any
meaningful way.
Few pepple want to travel 100s of miles to see a tent:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/2523381879_4b24be11a3.jpg?v=0
(Also not my picture)
tim
Perhaps people who think that the temple is just a building in a
random location will be upset that they can't see it in its entirety.
If you consider the monument in its geographical context it becomes
more interesting and impressive. This is true of the other sites you
found disappointing also.
B; |
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| Mister B |
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:09 am |
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On Jul 30, 11:07 am, Mister B <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Jul 30, 10:49 am, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
"Mister B" <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4d0210ec-7a34-420f-9ead-0c3f52a45eec@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 25, 8:46 pm, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Drove west to Kalamata where the traffic was awful.
You omit to mention that the drive from Mystra to Kalamata is
stunningly beautiful.
Day 7) A side trip to the temple of Apollo at Vasses. This is the biggest
disappointment of the trip.
And this is just plain wrong. Well, depending on your expectation,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------
I explained why, because you simply cannot view the complete monument in any
meaningful way.
Few pepple want to travel 100s of miles to see a tent:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/2523381879_4b24be11a3.jpg?v=0
(Also not my picture)
tim
Perhaps people who think that the temple is just a building in a
random location will be upset that they can't see it in its entirety.
If you consider the monument in its geographical context it becomes
more interesting and impressive. This is true of the other sites you
found disappointing also.
B;
To save myself the trouble of locating and scanning my slides, here is
pretty much what I saw in the early 80's.
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/greece/images/bassae/resized/without-tent-1981p-cc-bettsy1970.jpg
This photographer did not take, or show, a melon for breakfast. |
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| tim..... |
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:49 pm |
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Guest
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"Mister B" <jeremyrh.geo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4d0210ec-7a34-420f-9ead-0c3f52a45eec@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 25, 8:46 pm, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Quote: Drove west to Kalamata where the traffic was awful.
You omit to mention that the drive from Mystra to Kalamata is
stunningly beautiful.
Quote: Day 7) A side trip to the temple of Apollo at Vasses. This is the biggest
disappointment of the trip.
And this is just plain wrong. Well, depending on your expectation,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I explained why, because you simply cannot view the complete monument in any
meaningful way.
Few pepple want to travel 100s of miles to see a tent:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/2523381879_4b24be11a3.jpg?v=0
(Also not my picture)
tim |
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| tim..... |
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:35 pm |
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Guest
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"Mister B" <jeremyrh.geo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fa7043ca-4c00-49f2-8ccc-8dae1410c62c@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 30, 10:49 am, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Quote: "Mister B" <jeremyrh....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4d0210ec-7a34-420f-9ead-0c3f52a45eec@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 25, 8:46 pm, "tim....." <tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Drove west to Kalamata where the traffic was awful.
You omit to mention that the drive from Mystra to Kalamata is
stunningly beautiful.
Day 7) A side trip to the temple of Apollo at Vasses. This is the
biggest
disappointment of the trip.
And this is just plain wrong. Well, depending on your expectation,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
I explained why, because you simply cannot view the complete monument in
any
meaningful way.
Few pepple want to travel 100s of miles to see a tent:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/2523381879_4b24be11a3.jpg?v=0
(Also not my picture)
tim
Perhaps people who think that the temple is just a building in a
random location will be upset that they can't see it in its entirety.
If you consider the monument in its geographical context it becomes
more interesting and impressive. This is true of the other sites you
found disappointing also.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps it is, I don't deny it. But I don't believe that I am in the
minority of all tourists here.
Most people want to see things. Not speculate about historical context
tim |
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